31 replies to this topic

[pjalchemist]

I've seen them loads on videos on youtube states side but nothing at all other whats home made here. All the one for the youtube vids states side have been ones from china.

Is there a reason we don't have them on sale or we do and they are hidden

[portfire]

Shells were band in 95? in the uk..Improper use etc. Someone correct me if i'm wrong but you need a licence to buy shells in the US.

Here we need the likes of public liability, storage and another crap load of red tape

[Atom Fireworks]

Yea's they were banned and still are, they are banned to the General Public not professional's with the appropriate insurance and storage licences, not to mention special transport licences for the shipping to and from site.

I could be wrong on this part but on top of miss use by yob's i believe the end of if you like is when a school teacher was doing a display for the school, lent over a mortar tube and well with quick match you no what happend when he lit it. Please if ime wrong tell me so but it is my belief this event ended shells for the public.

Its a good thing they did ban them as in the wrong hands they are potentially hand granades and will kill without fail.

Dumper

Edited by cooperman435, 18 December 2009 - 12:43 PM.

[Creepin_pyro]

Its a good thing they did ban them as in the wrong hands they are potentially hand granades and will kill without fail.

I think a fair few here would disagree with that statement. I know I do!

I believe the Dutch government has just legalised shells up to 2" - bravo I say!

[crystal palace fireworks]

Im not so sure Dumper (but I understand your concerns), the governments quick fix answer to anything they don`t understand is to ban it.

If there was adequate provisions in place like PPE, remote firing, clearer labeling on the mortar type firework, or an intruction leaflet, then its highly possible this teacher would be alive today,..although without knowing the exact details, it difficult to make a comment on this particular incident.

Edited by crystal palace fireworks, 18 December 2009 - 04:12 PM.

[StephF]

IM not so sure Dumper (but I understand your concerns), the governments quick fix answer to anything they don`t understand is to ban it.

Are we talking about pre built shells or shell casings ?

i believe the end of if you like is when a school teacher was doing a display for the school, lent over a mortar tube and well with quick match you no what happend when he lit it.

I don't know when or where this happened but it sounds a damn stupid thing to do.

Almost as Darwinian as peering down a barrel of a firearm that is misfiring without clearing the breech first.

Edited by StephF, 18 December 2009 - 11:13 AM.

[Atom Fireworks]

Ok well maybe not as powerfull as a real hand granade but you get the picture, a 3 inch salute shell will kill you with shrapnel if you are to close to it assuming u misuse it on the ground and theres any case surrounding it i.e telephone boxes or mortar tubes. I have seen the remenants of a salute in a tube upside down maybe cooperman could be so kind to post the pictures of the left over of a tube that he did a test with p.e pipe to see if and how badly it would fragment in the event of a flower pot with a salute. Also check out this video and tell me that its a good idea to have the general public to be able to purchase shell's without some form of training or cetificate to say they have been trainded and are competant using these fireworks.





I am not having a go at the people who disagree ime am merely defending my corner having seen the damage these can cause.

Dumper

[Richard H]

Doing some research, I found the following excerpt:

The second death was of Mr
David Hattersley, Headmaster of Hazlemere Primary School in High Wycombe,
Buckinghamshire. He is reported to have stumbled forward as he was supervising the
school’s annual display on 1 November 1996, and took the full impact of an 8lb mortarstyle
firework.44 The third death was of Mr Steven Timcke from Wilmington, Kent. He
died from facial injuries when he lit a firework at a private bonfire party on 2 November
1996. According to press reports, the firework weighed 4 lbs. and was meant to be fired
from a mortar tube, but the instructions were in Chinese, Mr Timcke is believed to have
used a match.

See: http://www.parliamen...98/rp98-084.pdf

I believe that it was a neccesary step to remove shells from public sale. I only wish there was a nationally recognised scheme to determine that an individual is competent in use and may be supplied.

[Atom Fireworks]

Doing some research, I found the following excerpt:



See: http://www.parliamen...98/rp98-084.pdf

I believe that it was a neccesary step to remove shells from public sale. I only wish there was a nationally recognised scheme to determine that an individual is competent in use and may be supplied.

Maybe in the future at some point this could become an option but i doubt it with the way this government works as somebody stated when the government dont understand the quick fix seems to be ban. I suppose having the insurance and storage is kind of a scheme if you like to get cat4 but its not something that would be beneficial to the nov 5th hobbiest.

[CCH Concepts]

i think there could be one answer to this.

that if they were made legal, they came pre-assembled in a correct tube and with a radio firring system. all enclosed, no setup required from end user other than place, retreat to set distance and fire.
the fact is these would be very expensive and only for those who really want to use them. but these would be made in a way that they would have to be purposely mis used to cause harm. in which case same goes for already available fireworks.

[phildunford]

I fired 2 3 & 4 inch shells for many years at small displays and never had any problems. I think the ban was a very sad day. It's badly affected the fund-raising abilities of many small organisations/ scouts/ village halls etc.

I talked to someone a few months ago who knew the teacher who was killed. The person who was supposed to fire could not make it and someone who did not understand took over at the last minute and made a fatal mistake.

Now I'm very sorry for this death and any other firework related deaths and injuries but you have to consider how few people are actually injured or killed.

This kind of mentality would have most sports banned - how many are killed, climbing or caving or severley injured playing rugby? The point it is, it's their choice. It's even your choice to go to a firework display or not and if you get a bit of ash in your eye - well tough!

Banning is the easy option for the government and we ought to look very closely at bans and kick up merry hell if they are unjustified.

[crystal palace fireworks]

Doing some research, I found the following excerpt:



See: http://www.parliamen...98/rp98-084.pdf

I believe that it was a neccesary step to remove shells from public sale. I only wish there was a nationally recognised scheme to determine that an individual is competent in use and may be supplied.

I believe a temporary ban on a particular brand of shell that causes a death or serious injury is right and proper until an in-depth investigation on a product fault can be determined (if it ever can be).

Its still difficult to determine whether many firework injuries/deaths are the fault of sky-larking about, alcohol induce injuries, product fault, poor instruction, general poor education of persons, lack of inspection of firing equipment, human error, act of god etc.

If a 3 inch mortar tube is buried in the ground down to say at least the depth of the height of the shell or more,..would the fragmentation (sidewards) not be contained to some degree? or sand bags were used to contain the fragmentation as well as holding down the rack?

In conjuction with the above, if the loading of shell in a mortar was done by say a metre long chute with string attached to the shell (another version of arms length), would this not go some way to eliminate the injuries caused by upper bodies hanging over the mortar tube?

I think remote firing of these types of fireworks for the public should be compulsory, plus testing on the suggestions above.

Edited by crystal palace fireworks, 18 December 2009 - 05:20 PM.

[Arthur Brown]

Shells were banned from sale to the general public after the incidents involving high profile but untrained and inexperienced people who died, quite horrifically.

The USA still has some small shells available in some states and counties by retail sale, but I think the maximum diameter is 1.75" and I'm certain that there are other conditions on the manufacture too!

Now if they banned everything that had caused two deaths........ We'd be short of legal things to do!

[crystal palace fireworks]

Shells were banned from sale to the general public after the incidents involving high profile but untrained and inexperienced people who died, quite horrifically.

The USA still has some small shells available in some states and counties by retail sale, but I think the maximum diameter is 1.75" and I'm certain that there are other conditions on the manufacture too!

Now if they banned everything that had caused two deaths........ We'd be short of legal things to do!

LOL, I guess we all have to thank Lord Falconer for the blame, fear, and suing culture we have today!

[pjalchemist]

It's a shame there death involved but it happen. The problem was they were allowed in the UK and no checks made to make sure they were with everything needed or instuctions in english.

The blowing up of the rack is cool to show how bad things can go but it's a tipical yank, im big cleaver and can do what i want. Sorry years in the army with them do my head in, non different!

I would love to be able to let some small shell off, some 2'' be ideal, 3'' max!

So making my own is the only option!