14 replies to this topic

[dave]

hi,

anyone intersted in whistle compositions ? i came accross this, looks really interesting / informative
http://www.privateda...tles.pdf</span>

The Secrets of

Pyrotechnic Whistles

Joseph A. Domanico

VP Publications / Webmaster

Crackerjacks, Inc.

drpyro@home.co


dave321

[dave]

this link should work

www.privatedata.com/byb/pyro/pgi2000whistles.pdf
dave321

[PyroSkitz]

id love to make whistle rockets + fountains but i dont have press..urghh another piece of pyro tooling i would like to buy...haha

[PyroCreationZ]

id love to make whistle rockets + fountains but i dont have press..urghh another piece of pyro tooling i would like to buy...haha

Hehe that one is also on my wish list
Won't be anyware soon though...

And Dave, thx for the PDF

Edited by PyroCreationZ, 28 August 2010 - 10:57 PM.

[dr thrust]

interesting read, somebody went to alot of trouble to research and publish the whistle info, pity they missed out sorbate based whistles

[Mumbles]

So Chris, I was actually talking to some people at PGI this year about that. It seems a few people did extensive testing in the 1980's with it. They didn't make the cut for a variety of reasons.

Edited by Mumbles, 02 September 2010 - 05:33 AM.

[alany]

For the curious, know what the reasons where?

[MDH]

So Chris, I was actually talking to some people at PGI this year about that. It seems a few people did extensive testing in the 1980's with it. They didn't make the cut for a variety of reasons.

I'm assuming they dismissed its whistling properties as being inferior or undesirable in some way. I have never actually made potassium sorbate whistle. The development made by chris was news to me. I was only using them as a practical resource for reactivity in compositions.

[Mumbles]

The lack of power compared to benzoates or salicylates was the big one. At least at the time, benzoates were significantly cheaper. Perhaps with the greater spread of homebrewing here, sorbate has gotten somewhat cheaper to the general public. I didn't get too many details, but I'd imagine they didn't tune any tooling specifically to sorbate as have been done with benzoates and sali.

They coined the sorbate whistles as "flatulating rockets" due to the sound it makes. Congrats, you've rediscovered the farting whistle

I thought for sure it was a new development too. I'd never heard of non-aromatic whistle formulas before, and was actually wondering if it was tube resonance vs. actual true chemical resonance at first when you guys were playing with it. Even if it doesn't pan out as an acceptable whistle fuel, sorbate seems to be working great for boosters and exotic fuels for you guys.

[dr thrust]

I'm guilty of only trying one formula on my sorbate rocket, i need to do more work on ratios and catalysts, how about copper sorbate with a copper oxide catalyst?.
also agreed on the tooling needing tuning for sorbate motors, but i cant really see a problem getting them to work in a satisfactory manner, even blending benzoates and sorbates?
another option a "step motor" with the initial benzoate launch comp changing mid burn to the sorbate for a twin tone motor.
talking about comp resonating v tube resonating there is an interesting device i found in a pyro book called the "sound of music" where tubes of diminishing lengths and diameters are charged with a whistle comp (maybe each as its own fuel type/ratio?).
these are linked together with visco


i think the first tube is charged with a colour changing fountain comp for visual effect, wonder if you stepped the whistle comps in the tubes at different heights with bp you could get a tune out of it

Edited by chris m, 02 September 2010 - 06:04 PM.

[MDH]

They coined the sorbate whistles as "flatulating rockets" due to the sound it makes. Congrats, you've rediscovered the farting whistle

The quotes of a lack of power seem a bit odd to me. I have used pretty much every high-powered organic reactant in the book save a few (ferricyanide and thiocyanates). And sorbate, while not topping the list, certainly ranks very high in my books. It rivals potassium salicylate.

Though I did write down a few notes under potassium sorbate's section in my personal pyro-chemistry book, I listed it as "low pitched whistle". Perhaps this bizzare noise could allow me to create some more novelty products this halloween .

[dave]

in all my reading over the years, of all the usual texts, i have never come across "sorbate whistles".
news to me.

how much use is made of potassium terephthalate these days, anyone use it / got a supply ?

dave321

[Mumbles]

I know Danny Creagan knows about the sorbate whistles, so perhaps we'll get some actual thrust data from him in the near future. My experience with them are restricted to what these few guys had told me, and the stuff I've read here. Judging from Chris' video, they have kind of a lazy flight compared to some benzoate and salicylate whistles I've seen in person. It may be much different in person. As I said, I have no doubt that they can be tuned.

[MDH]

in all my reading over the years, of all the usual texts, i have never come across "sorbate whistles".
news to me.

how much use is made of potassium terephthalate these days, anyone use it / got a supply ?

dave321

Hi dave,

I haven't personally used it for a while now that I have sodium benzoate. I used to synthesize monosodium terephthalate regularly from polyethylene terephthalate dissolved in ethylene glycol and an alkaline base. I produced a number of terephthalates but to me they performed poorly with perchlorate which was the only thing I used at that point, so I didn't use them for long. Perhaps I'll go back to them someday, though...

[dr thrust]

I know Danny Creagan knows about the sorbate whistles, so perhaps we'll get some actual thrust data from him in the near future. My experience with them are restricted to what these few guys had told me, and the stuff I've read here. Judging from Chris' video, they have kind of a lazy flight compared to some benzoate and salicylate whistles I've seen in person. It may be much different in person. As I said, I have no doubt that they can be tuned.

agreed these have got to be tune-able, my experiences with benzoate whistles found very slight changes in fuel ratio and core lengths and even tube id, often over-looked ( ive had 1lb motors out perform 3lb motors in nozzle-less motors) can turn a damp squib into a fire breathing monster that goes like a train
yep a slight tweak can make all the difference, guess thats the appeal of rockets there infinite tuning possibilities .
but im falling into a trap again, talking about whats possible without physically doing it to prove a theory, sigh

Edited by chris m, 02 September 2010 - 10:31 PM.