18 replies to this topic

[Potassium chlorate]

I bought some just to try it. It seems to find use mostly in AP and or/blue compositions, especially with hygroscopic chemicals or chemicals that aren't stable in the presence of water. It's soluble in alcohol, like shellac and red gum and is chemically similar.

However, on PyroGuide they say that it's not often used because it's a poor and brittle binder.

Anyone experienced with it?

[vaslop2005]

I've seen it used with KNO3 in some kind of rocket fuel, have a look on YouTube, (Bakelite rocket) it looks interesting. Where did you manage to get hold of it?

[Potassium chlorate]

I've seen it used with KNO3 in some kind of rocket fuel, have a look on YouTube, (Bakelite rocket) it looks interesting. Where did you manage to get hold of it?

It's not very hard to get hold of. They sell it in the hardware stores here, but it can also be bought from Pyro-Stuff and other suppliers.

[helix]

I've never used it but I recall seeing a thread on passfire by Rene who must run Pyro-Stuff - I think he rolled stars using it and If I recall said it was good to roll with and also could be used with magnesium without any need for potassium dichromate or linseed oil etc.

Maybe Ener can advise?

[a_bab]

Under what brand name/ product did you find it? I'm curious about it's "civilian" use.

[ener]

Yes I have/offer and have rolled with phenolic resin. In fact It is Bakelite, but I wouldn't dare to grind an old telephone for it hehe. No, it's what I was told about the stuff.
It is an alcohol solvent binder, and you need pure alcohol to roll with. I bought mine as bio-ethanol which is purified to 100%. I don't know if it's exactly 100% pure C2H5OH but it works for me and 10L cost me about € 30,-.

Too many times is see people coating their magnesium with lindseed oil or even worse (carcinogen) K-dichromate. Many factories don't even use the K-dich, because it is very easy to circumvent the use of K-dich.
Just roll with alcohol and phenolic resin. 5% resin works well for most compositions. The reason why it's used in blue compositions sometimes is because of the presence of CuO and a metal.
Phenolic resin is definitely not a brittle binder, this is very incorrect information. (thats why I don't really like wiki-like websites, everybody can say what they want as if it's the truth.)

The resin is very uncommon in amateur pyro, but many factories is southern of Europe and in Asia use this binder for rolling and pressing.
It rolls great without spiking, pure alc and the resin isn't as sticky as dex and water. The only problem I had with my fiberglas-resin starroller is that the wall of the drum collected some composition as well. Now I have a dur-alumniun drum and this (and any other metal wall) doesn't pick up the composition as much as the plastic one does.
You can spray & sprinkle, but with bigger stars like 7mm and up, you can roll with the toro method as well.

Edited by ener, 15 October 2010 - 11:46 PM.

[Potassium chlorate]

Under what brand name/ product did you find it? I'm curious about it's "civilian" use.

It's made by a company called Stanlab. The product itself is just called "pine colophony". It's what's usually called rosin

[Arthur Brown]

Pine Colophony in NOT a phenolic resin it is a simply natural gum exuded for pine trees. It has been used as a binder for centuries and still (obviously ) works! Commercially the downside is the cost of the alcohol which if pure attracts significant tax making it very expensive to evaporate to atmosphere, also there is the risk of formation of a flammable atmosphere,

Synthetic resins are used at up to 10% compound as both fuel and binder these will have a specific method of incorporation and likely some solvent. They will likely be heat cured so manufacture at say 15c and warm cure at say 35c. Lets face it the stars in firework we buy from China can have an eight week cure cycle as they spend this time at sea and some of this in tropical climes.

[Potassium chlorate]

Hm, but Pyro-Stuff's resin looks just like mine. And PyroGuide (although, like, Ener mentioned, not 100% reliable) states that both kinds are "natural".

Well, I'll give it a try when I have time.

[a_bab]

Flour looks like milled KP, yet you can make a bread out of it.

If when heated smells kind of like pine tree resin then it's colophony. And I'm sure it is, since novolac resin it's a totally different animal.

BTW, pyroguide is full of crap.

[Arthur Brown]

Phenolic resins are far from natural! They are the reaction product of phenols and formaldehyde with catalysts and other reaction modifiers. An early phenolic was Bakelite (search wikipedia ) subsequently urea-formaldehyde resins and melamine formaldehyde resins have been used for better appearance and moulding properties.

[Potassium chlorate]

Flour looks like milled KP, yet you can make a bread out of it.

If when heated smells kind of like pine tree resin then it's colophony. And I'm sure it is, since novolac resin it's a totally different animal.

Like I said, I'll try it when I have more time.

BTW, pyroguide is full of crap.

Yes, I know, although they have many good points on some subjects.

[Potassium chlorate]

Phenolic resins are far from natural! They are the reaction product of phenols and formaldehyde with catalysts and other reaction modifiers. An early phenolic was Bakelite (search wikipedia ) subsequently urea-formaldehyde resins and melamine formaldehyde resins have been used for better appearance and moulding properties.

I actually studied chemistry at high school, so I do have some rudimentary knowledge.

The thing is, in my language every resin, no matter source or production, is called "harts". Though bakelite is counted among plastics here, so bakelite is no "harts". Or they are called "resin", just like in English, which doesn't say much either, since "harts" and "resin" are synonymous to me.

[ener]

Hm, but Pyro-Stuff's resin looks just like mine. And PyroGuide (although, like, Ener mentioned, not 100% reliable) states that both kinds are "natural".

Well, I'll give it a try when I have time.

To be clear; our phenolic resin is not pine colophoy. Although they visual look the same. The smell is totally different hehe.

[drtoivowillmann]

Dear Friends:

I use them only in our fireworks factory (Fogos Confiança Ltda., Brazil). In reality all people herebey copied me and use them instead of Red Gum (Acaroides).
It needs about 20 % more of oxigen than Red Gum, in order to replace it. It ignites more easily and burns more hotly.
Best is Phemole Novolaca, made of phenole + Hexamethylenetrammine with less than 1% of free Phenole (if there where more, you cannot make round stars within your star pan, also called star mill).

It's best in formulas with Pechlorate + Magnalium and gives the purest colours. Also it is soluble in alcohol, I bind always with water and Arabic Gum, like I did formerly (20 years ago) with Red Gum.

Greetings from Brazil:

Toivo