59 replies to this topic

[pyrotechnist]

I set off a bought firework in celebration the other day, a guy complained and got the police involved and I have always been open with the police and HSE etc that I test small amounts of comp every now and then. Today they came with a warrant under explosives act and seized 1000 pounds worth of chemicals from me under the grounds that its dangerous to store oxidizers and metals and that I am supposedly not allowed to store such things as potassium nitrate, calcium nitrate, sodium nitrate, sodium bicarbonate, barium sulphate, strontium carb etc etc as they could explode. What a load of tosh! the fire officer that came had no knowlage of chemicals whatsoever and yet tried claiming it would explode on its own if in contact with heat .

Im sooo angry at the moment and pretty darn upset to be honest, the guy said I can only have chemicals on an industrial site which is again a load of tosh. Any advice from the pro's here on what I can do? they didnt really go on about any manufacture of small test comps under the 100g exemption even though I listed it countless times and told them I didnt store though he had it in for the chemicals.

[MDH]

Call the authorities about it. Get a lawyer. If they made a false claim and used false reasons to raid your house you have the legal right to fight back. That's at least the case here in North America.

[exat808]

I set off a bought firework in celebration the other day, a guy complained and got the police involved and I have always been open with the police and HSE etc that I test small amounts of comp every now and then. Today they came with a warrant under explosives act and seized 1000 pounds worth of chemicals from me under the grounds that its dangerous to store oxidizers and metals and that I am supposedly not allowed to store such things as potassium nitrate, calcium nitrate, sodium nitrate, sodium bicarbonate, barium sulphate, strontium carb etc etc as they could explode. What a load of tosh! the fire officer that came had no knowlage of chemicals whatsoever and yet tried claiming it would explode on its own if in contact with heat .

Im sooo angry at the moment and pretty darn upset to be honest, the guy said I can only have chemicals on an industrial site which is again a load of tosh. Any advice from the pro's here on what I can do? they didnt really go on about any manufacture of small test comps under the 100g exemption even though I listed it countless times and told them I didnt store though he had it in for the chemicals.

The warrant will have to have been obtained by swearing information to a magistrate. If the warrant was under the Explosives Act 1875 as you say then I would query what offences were envisaged as there is very little left of the Act that applies. Issues relating to unlawful ( unlicensed) manufacture are dealt with under the 1974 Health and Safety at Work Act and the regulations enacted under this (MSER 2005 to be specific). With regard to the chemicals then I would say that provided they were stored and handled in accordance with the MSDS obtained from the suppliers then all should be ok.
Happy to discuss further in the forum or by PM

[whoof]

supposedly not allowed to store such things as , sodium bicarbonate,
the fire officer that came had no knowlage of chemicals whatsoever
I can only have chemicals on an industrial site which is again a load of tosh.

Blimey , did they take your fire extinguisher too
You would think for something like that they would bring an expert if they were seriously concerned.
Are they intending to raid all of Tescos next ?

Is the person making the complaint on the council ?
Have you had an acrimonious divorce or run over the Chief Constables dog?

[dr thrust]

how did they even know you had chems?

[crystal palace fireworks]

Sorry to hear about your predicament pyrotechnist,

If the firework was set off at home? and this is also your place of work,....Im wondering if there are any COSHH issues?

[www.oliverbrown.co.uk]

Will they have to return your chems if they were incorrect to take them in the first place?
Did you make sure they have the correct storage facility to accept your chems?
As they were at work, does COSHH come in to play for them?
Did they bring correct transport for these dangerous chems (baking soda!!)

[pyrotechnist]

Sorry for the late replies, the police where relying on the fire officer's approval of my chemicals, this guy was that clever he even thought sodium bicarbonate was a hazard!!! The removal guy even questioned why he was taking some of the items due to them being common materials and knew his stuff on chemicals unlike the police and fire service. All the chemicals where kept in original containers with original CHIP labelling as the MSDS states. They kept asking questions like how much of these chemicals would it take to make an explosion, could you blow up your shed with these and could you replicate your firework with these chemicals. All these questions to me sounded like they are trying to make me out to be some sort of terrorist and is patronising. They left all my tubes and tools but just took all the chemicals making out potassium nitrate could explode if it came into contact with a wooden dowel on fire! According to potassium nitrate msds the product is pretty inert when in contact with a combustible according to UN tests done on the subject.

They seized:

Potassium perchlorate
Potassium nitrate
Potassium tartrate
Magnesium stearate
Magnesium granules
Magnesium carbonate
Strontium carbonate
Sodium bicarbonate 25kg
Sodium carbonate
Calcium Nitrate - 2 x 25kg for gardening
Ammonium Sulphate
Boric Acid
Copper oxychloride
Acetone
Copper oxide
Copper carbonate
Copper sulphate
Calcium sulphate
Barium sulphate though left Barium Carbonate!
Charcoal
Bismuth trioxide
Hexamine tried claiming hexamine was a dangerous fuel!
Sulphur claimed the same for sulphur as they did hexamine.
Antimony Trisulfide
Sodium sulphate
Parlon
Pigment blue
Solvent red and blue
Shellac
Gum Arabic

and some extras all equating to over 700 or so pounds worth. I showed them the firework I set off and said it was ilegal for me to set fireworks off before bonfire night. The fire officer was as far as I am concerned an idiot with no knowlage of chemicals whatsoever to be making unjust decisions when you can buy household chemicals that are far worse and dam it even store petrol in your garage or gas.

Looks like my hobby has come to an abrupt end and my gardening career in using the said fertilisers so I am out of a job now as they are going to come back and done spot checks to make sure the chemicals are not bought back in.

[pyrotechnist]

I also found out via the police for a different situation they knew I bought in potassium nitrate as it was flagged on their systems and they where keeping a close eye on me so anyone without a license please do be careful cause they are cracking down by using the most stupid excuses.

[Mortartube]

I would ask for a receipt for your chemicals with each individual chemical listed AND the weights that they siezed being listed too. (That means the buggers will have to weigh them if they haven't already, which they won't like). Also ask them to produce copies of the relevent legislation including highlighted paragraphs that they used to sieze them under.

Do they know what they siezed? Just because the container has a chemical name on it, it doesn't mean that's what's in it. Ask them to confirm by chemical testing that they have siezed what they say they have (Police budgets are stretched as it is, they won't be keen on paying out for expensive chemical tests on each individual item.) If they refuse, they can't PROVE that they have what they say they have.

If they can't do this, simply ask for them back as they have been illegally siezed. If they can't show you what you have done wrong in writing, they have no case.


Further more confirm that they are still being stored and have not been destroyed. If they have been destroyed, they have destroyed evidence, if they haven't, they must be stored appropriately per regulations.

Tell them that you want them back so do not dispose of them.

Take legal advice, try Citizens advice first.

Maybe someone on here can help you by videoing putting a flame to these various chemicals to demonstrate that they do NOT explode in contact with heat and offer to do the same for them as a live demonstration with a little of your chemicals.

Lastly GOOD LUCK

Edited by Mortartube, 30 July 2011 - 11:48 PM.

[pyrotechnist]

I would ask for a receipt for your chemicals with each individual chemical listed AND the weights that they siezed being listed too. (That means the buggers will have to weigh them if they haven't already, which they won't like). Also ask them to produce copies of the relevent legislation including highlighted paragraphs that they used to sieze them under.

Do they know what they siezed? Just because the container has a chemical name on it, it doesn't mean that's what's in it. Ask them to confirm by chemical testing that they have siezed what they say they have (Police budgets are stretched as it is, they won't be keen on paying out for expensive chemical tests on each individual item.) If they refuse, they can't PROVE that they have what they say they have.

If they can't do this, simply ask for them back as they have been illegally siezed. If they can't show you what you have done wrong in writing, they have no case.


Further more confirm that they are still being stored and have not been destroyed. If they have been destroyed, they have destroyed evidence, if they haven't, they must be stored appropriately per regulations.

Tell them that you want them back so do not dispose of them.

Take legal advice, try Citizens advice first.

Maybe someone on here can help you by videoing putting a flame to these various chemicals to demonstrate that they do NOT explode in contact with heat and offer to do the same for them as a live demonstration with a little of your chemicals.

Lastly GOOD LUCK

The disposal company has already been and taken them for destruction so basically they have destroyed the evidence without carrying any tests out or providing a solid reason to why they where taking them accept for they should not be within any residential area and should only be stored in an industrial premises even though most industrial premises reside in residential areas . They where originally meant to bring a HSE guy around to check the set up but ended up changing their minds and using the fire officer instead. I am going to take this further and take them to court or try find legal relief. I told the police that I want copies of everything and a detailed report from the said idiot from the fire brigade while also stating he needs to go back to school and do some chemistry.

I didnt want to push things to far to day as they where threatening with me with the option of cooperating or being arrested for not cooperating.

[Mortartube]

I feel really sorry for you. I would bill them for the full amount to replace the stuff, once you get it sorted out. Definitely take it further, I certainly would. Don't go to the minions, write to the police chief straight away explaining that they have destroyed evidence, If they had a warrant, it was a legal process so they shouldn't have destroyed evidence. They have been very bad boys indeed!

[pyrotechnist]

Well according to them they didnt act out the warrant cause I cooperated with them on viewing my chemicals so not sure where I stand on that point now even though they still seized the chemicals which is technically part of the warrant?

[martyn]

Did they also take the half gallon of petrol you might have in the garden shed for the lawn mower?
That is potentially far more dangerous from a fire or explosion point of view than correctly stored chemicals, half the housholds in the country will have that in the shed or garage, some even drive around with it in the boot!!
You'd also better dispose of any calor for the gas bbq!
Without wishing to sound cheeky, is there a bit more to this than we know, do you regularly upset the neighbours or something?

[Mortartube]

I think it's legal advice time. You co operated as you were told you would be arrested if you didn't. All sounds highly suspect to me. Sounds like you were forced to cooperate under duress.