17 replies to this topic

[chippie minton]

Good morning all, I am a visitor to your forum with a question.Hope I am in the right place.....you people seem to be having a fun without injuries so here goes. I shoot black powder target pistols for fun whilst trying to improve my shooting, black powder pistols give off a big cloud of smoke, some flash and a good BOOM. Now.... call me sad, but I would like to add some colour to the smoke and sparks....just for fun.
The pistols run on Swiss black powder Numbers 1&2 [fine & not so fine] using charges between 15 and 30 Grains. so, is there something you can think of that I could mix in with the powder to add a bit of colour ? somthing that won't blow my guns up or realy piss orf the range conduct officer...........
Many thanks,
Marcus.

[Arthur Brown]

Many dyes would colour the smoke, that's not even difficult. What is difficult is the risk of staining and damage to your cherished guns and the surroundings -all coloured smokes stain badly, and the risk of upsetting the range supervisors who expect you to use powder as licensed not modified.

As you shoot pistols you cannot be in the UK (pistols are banned here) So be very careful that you comply with your local laws and best practices.

[Night Owl]

Muzzle loading pistols are not banned here in the UK.

Many dyes would colour the smoke, that's not even difficult. What is difficult is the risk of staining and damage to your cherished guns and the surroundings -all coloured smokes stain badly, and the risk of upsetting the range supervisors who expect you to use powder as licensed not modified.

As you shoot pistols you cannot be in the UK (pistols are banned here) So be very careful that you comply with your local laws and best practices.

Edited by Night Owl, 30 October 2011 - 02:12 PM.

[exat808]

Good morning all, I am a visitor to your forum with a question.Hope I am in the right place.....you people seem to be having a fun without injuries so here goes. I shoot black powder target pistols for fun whilst trying to improve my shooting, black powder pistols give off a big cloud of smoke, some flash and a good BOOM. Now.... call me sad, but I would like to add some colour to the smoke and sparks....just for fun.
The pistols run on Swiss black powder Numbers 1&2 [fine & not so fine] using charges between 15 and 30 Grains. so, is there something you can think of that I could mix in with the powder to add a bit of colour ? somthing that won't blow my guns up or realy piss orf the range conduct officer...........
Many thanks,
Marcus.

OK so if you are shooting BP ML pistols you must be the holder of a Firearms certificate and an Acquire and Keep certificate. Those documents declaring you to be a "fit" person under two pieces of legislation. If I was your licencing officer I would have some serious concerns at the next renewal of your certificates if I was aware of this post. Likewise your club officials might be concerned to read this too.
If you can demonstrate the safety case for adding pyrotechnic substances to propellant powders for use in firearms then please do so. I imagine that you will have fully researched the variance in pressure curves exerted by your anticipated mix insofar as they may afect your proofing of the weapons? Likewise the toxicity of residual vapours post firing will have been researched and discussed with club insurers etc?

Stay safe.

[Mortartube]

OK so if you are shooting BP ML pistols you must be the holder of a Firearms certificate and an Acquire and Keep certificate. Those documents declaring you to be a "fit" person under two pieces of legislation. If I was your licencing officer I would have some serious concerns at the next renewal of your certificates if I was aware of this post. Likewise your club officials might be concerned to read this too.
If you can demonstrate the safety case for adding pyrotechnic substances to propellant powders for use in firearms then please do so. I imagine that you will have fully researched the variance in pressure curves exerted by your anticipated mix insofar as they may afect your proofing of the weapons? Likewise the toxicity of residual vapours post firing will have been researched and discussed with club insurers etc?

Stay safe.

Ah! Whatever happened to the spirit of adventure?

[Night Owl]

I second that, bit harsh some of the replies.

Ah! Whatever happened to the spirit of adventure?

[dr thrust]

must be a bet on, who can scare off the most newbies

[Night Owl]

Yes I have met him and had a go at him about scaring newbies off, he stopped for a while but now he's back at it.

must be a bet on, who can scare off the most newbies

[exat808]

Yes I have met him and had a go at him about scaring newbies off, he stopped for a while but now he's back at it.

Me!

[Night Owl]

No

[Richard H]

Gents. We seem to be veering off course. Fireworks and Firearms are not something I would personally choose to combine, and as the OP is discussing black powder muzzle reloading, I trust they have the required paperwork. I don't think it is wise to start modifying guns or propellents - less a possibility of invalidating the proof. There is a possibility of damage to the gun or to the person firing it. Perhaps a better approach would be to explore the use of reactive targets. These are commercially available and provide visual / audible confirmation of a direct hit and are good fun.

I am uncertain of the legalities (other than acquiring and storage etc) surrounding the making up of home loading / muzzle loading - I suppose for a visual effect, some fine titanium powder could be charged with the black powder but I would be unsure whether this would be frowned upon in a club setting - not to mention it may damage and score the barrel of the gun.

[chippie minton]

Morning all, My question seems to have caused some ripples........My intent was/is to add colour to the firing line. As Night owl rightly says we are allowed BP ML pistols for target shooting here in the uk and have to jump through hoops of fire to exercise the right to have them. The subject of reactive targets has been raised but are not allowed where I shoot on "health and safety grounds" ???
Rest asssured Gents, I do have the relevent paperwork, insurances and a desire to keep my eyes and fingers where they should be. I also have been involved with firearms and ammunition of one sort or annother for over 30 years. Old Git .
I have no problem with thoroughly testing anything thats new to me before trying it out.
So, if we can accept that I am not a phuqing iddiot with a death wish and an endless supply of pistols.........
Tell me more about coloured smoke and sparks, please.
Kind regards,
Marcus.

[Atom Fireworks]

The way to view this forum is that, when you ask a question it is the resposiblity of the people in the know to give you the correct information and give you their by the book advice, i do not think they mean it in such a way to scare newbies of but more so to give you the understanding of exactly what you are doing. This should be taken as really good advice and not to scare you off, you will find people will suggest ideas on what you could do but again its your responisibility to do it safely ;-) now get so of your bp, make some plugges card tubes ( or used cake tubes) and get some metal additives in different mesh sizes and have a play, obviously dont fire anything out if the tubes just put some tissue wadding rammed down to give it some compression, whats the worst that could happen? A too much powder and the tube goes bang abvit like a big BP banger, so if you use the right safety distances you will be fine.

The dangers of gaseus products produced by adding colour dyes is not something i know about so i shall leave that to any one with good chemistry knowledge ( theres plenty on here)

So in essence stay safe, have fun and research ;-)

Jay

[crystal palace fireworks]

Marcus, thank you for asking the question on creating coloured smoke & sparks with BP using a pistol.

The question of using a firearm (gun) as a apparatus for the above experimentation is on the whole not something many forum contributors would be comfortable with giving advice about in detail, this is because of many unknown variables both legally, practically, or safety wise and is beyond the remit of many on this firework forum in general - for example, Is there going to be a increased possibility of residue build-up (if any) on the guns mechanism/barrel? and would this affect the guns maintenance, warranty, or intended use?, or proximity of dyed smoke + added comps affecting yourself and the public/environment close-by?, or increased or decreased velocity/compression issues? or short or long term metal fatigue issues?

Have you been in touch with any firearm trade associations?

Although we can give advice from a firework chemistry or firework making perspective.

Best of luck and stay safe!

Edited by crystal palace fireworks, 31 October 2011 - 11:53 AM.

[Creepin_pyro]

A quick search suggests that using shotshells with smokeless and chalk is the safest way to do this:

http://www.thehighro...p/t-342945.html

Sounds like a bad idea trying to do this by altering / mixing in the propellant, nevermind the potential legal issues.