Not sure what others think. ~But having legal access to Pyrotechnics for display purposes I am shocked to see how many multiples of 100% can be added to a standard Cat 4 pricing by certain individuals / unregisted companys on here. " Not Cooperman"" who's prices are very good, but others who are charging £20.00 for a roll of Quickmatch which I can pick up for £4.50. rolls of blackmatch selling for 20.00 which cost even less than that. If you live near me. I would give Visco away as it is so cheap. Theirs making a few quid then theirs extortion.
Over inflated prices
Started by pyrothrust, Sep 05 2012 01:21 PM
42 replies to this topic
#2
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Posted 05 September 2012 - 02:41 PM
a lot of people don't realise fuse is not a cat 4 item so they think they need to be a display company to access it or use ebay / on-line sellers selling it at 1000% more.
if your willing to do your homework and read the regulations. you can phone any local cat 4 wholesaler of display company and prove you understand the regs (stating fuse is not a cat 4 product ect) and also show you are competent (you understand what you are buying and how to use it) eg for refusing cat 3 fireworks.
as you say how a seller can justify £20 for a meter of Quick match i dont know when it only costs £10 for 50m
all i advise people is cut the middle man out and go direct to a display company / wholesaler
i think it would be a good idea if the ukps / ukfr made a small database of all uk firework companys that are happy selling it to competent person if they picked up locally. it would maybe push prices to a normal level.
if your willing to do your homework and read the regulations. you can phone any local cat 4 wholesaler of display company and prove you understand the regs (stating fuse is not a cat 4 product ect) and also show you are competent (you understand what you are buying and how to use it) eg for refusing cat 3 fireworks.
as you say how a seller can justify £20 for a meter of Quick match i dont know when it only costs £10 for 50m
all i advise people is cut the middle man out and go direct to a display company / wholesaler
i think it would be a good idea if the ukps / ukfr made a small database of all uk firework companys that are happy selling it to competent person if they picked up locally. it would maybe push prices to a normal level.
Edited by PyroPDC, 05 September 2012 - 02:44 PM.
#3
Mortartube
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Posted 05 September 2012 - 02:43 PM
There will always be the ripoff merchants. Some of the well known companies were ridiculously expensive. I am not sure about now. Pains were always a huge price for Cat4 goods, I think they didn't actually want to sell anything so just put on a high price tag. I have seen rolls of Chinese visco in the past at something like £1.00 a metre. It is dirt cheap direct from China.
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#4
Creepin_pyro
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Posted 05 September 2012 - 02:49 PM
Yeah. I was shocked at the real price of rolls of QM/visco after seeing nothing but web prices. Unfortunately this seems to be the norm for most of the UK pyro suppliers that have sprung up in the last few years. Charging £1/m for any kind of fuse is simple profiteering.
#5
Karl Mitchell-Shead
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Posted 05 September 2012 - 04:47 PM
Trouble is 95% of trade wholesalers will still outright refuse to sell to the general public.
Even when totally fuse was up and running and I was selling fuse dirt cheap (18p / 1m Visco, 20p 1m QM etc) I was still making good money, that covered time taken to measure out pack etc, I could justify charging that much but your right it's sickening to see visco at £1+.
I used to pay $40 for 1000m of 3.2mm visco!
I'd like to know where your getting 50m rolls of QM for £4.50 Pyrothrust! I take it it's not waterproof 4 strand foiled QM?!
Even when totally fuse was up and running and I was selling fuse dirt cheap (18p / 1m Visco, 20p 1m QM etc) I was still making good money, that covered time taken to measure out pack etc, I could justify charging that much but your right it's sickening to see visco at £1+.
I used to pay $40 for 1000m of 3.2mm visco!
I'd like to know where your getting 50m rolls of QM for £4.50 Pyrothrust! I take it it's not waterproof 4 strand foiled QM?!
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#6
cooperman435
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Posted 05 September 2012 - 07:25 PM
This made me giggle, glad to know Im not classed as "one of them" but recently got an email from Pyrotubes who were very proud to anounce that they now had "Lidu Blackmatch" available at just £25 a roll :-)
Ive had no reply to my email asking if this is the Lidu Blackmatch that is on sale from Uk supliers at £3.50 a roll curently, nor that if he wishes to buy it from me instead Ill hapilly discount it from those prices!
Strange how his fuse costs him so much isnt it!
Ive had no reply to my email asking if this is the Lidu Blackmatch that is on sale from Uk supliers at £3.50 a roll curently, nor that if he wishes to buy it from me instead Ill hapilly discount it from those prices!
Strange how his fuse costs him so much isnt it!
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#7
Karl Mitchell-Shead
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Posted 05 September 2012 - 07:41 PM
Bloody good fuse though!!
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#8
Arthur Brown
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Posted 05 September 2012 - 08:55 PM
IMO it's simply to preserver the "mystique" which most of us regard as bovine Excrement when it comes to pricing and fusing.
However IMO (again!) the regular workers on here have a lot of specialist knowledge that isn't "common sense" for the "general public".
Calling fuse Cat4 is an easy way to say no sale, in words that sound better in retail.
I recently wanted a roll of Pic equivalent and was asked for my COER/RCA and HSE HE stores licence. I was prepared to pay price + ADR courier but as this fuse isn't on COER I can't get the RCA for it because there isn't one!
However IMO (again!) the regular workers on here have a lot of specialist knowledge that isn't "common sense" for the "general public".
Calling fuse Cat4 is an easy way to say no sale, in words that sound better in retail.
I recently wanted a roll of Pic equivalent and was asked for my COER/RCA and HSE HE stores licence. I was prepared to pay price + ADR courier but as this fuse isn't on COER I can't get the RCA for it because there isn't one!
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#9
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Posted 05 September 2012 - 09:55 PM
i must admit its the really big companies that don't want the hassle of selling fuse to the public because they are worried they could get in trouble if the regs haven't been interpreted right. i brought some fuse from a very well known big company and even though im a professional display company with storage and insurance they wanted to see our manufacturing licence, even though there is a exception in the regs for fusing on site and place of storage. it took a lot of emails, phone calls, contacting HSE and some good friends to get them to change there policy.
a lot of the problem is companies covering there ass but the more it becomes public knowledge that its not illegal to sell fuse to compitant person then hopefully it will open the doors a little in our taboo world
a lot of the problem is companies covering there ass but the more it becomes public knowledge that its not illegal to sell fuse to compitant person then hopefully it will open the doors a little in our taboo world
Edited by PyroPDC, 05 September 2012 - 10:00 PM.
#10
www.oliverbrown.co.uk
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Posted 11 September 2012 - 11:37 PM
I guess some of this is aimed at me and yes I agree the price of fuse is inflated but in my defence it was already inflated before I started trading and I am just following suit. I have worked closely with trading standards and my pyro wholesaler to make sure I am legally covered to supply fuse to the public, storage, licensing, public and product liability insurance all cost a lot of money, this needs to be covered before I make a profit. It's all very well quoting prices now you are in the trade but the rest of the population can't buy at that price and any amount of sweet talking won’t get you the product without insurance and storage as a minimum so why wouldn't there be a decent profit margin.Not sure what others think. ~But having legal access to Pyrotechnics for display purposes I am shocked to see how many multiples of 100% can be added to a standard Cat 4 pricing by certain individuals / unregisted companys on here. " Not Cooperman"" who's prices are very good, but others who are charging £20.00 for a roll of Quickmatch which I can pick up for £4.50. rolls of blackmatch selling for 20.00 which cost even less than that. If you live near me. I would give Visco away as it is so cheap. Theirs making a few quid then theirs extortion.
The comment on quickmatch and blackmatch tickled me, where could a member of the public buy these products cheaper than I sell them?
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#11
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Posted 12 September 2012 - 12:55 AM
It's all very well quoting prices now you are in the trade but the rest of the population can't buy at that price and any amount of sweet talking won’t get you the product without insurance and storage as a minimum so why wouldn't there be a decent profit margin.
There is no regulations that state you need insurance or storage to buy fuse. I know seval companies that will sell to anyone at trade prices as long as you prove you know what the product is your buying.
there is however regulations on sending fuse in the post (which i remeber digger saying its almost impossible to send legaly.)
if forum members what to gain access to fuse without contacting wholesalers being a ukps paid member is one step closer to meeting other Ukps members in the trade. just coming to a UKPS AGM, or meet will open doors to access fuse. quite a lot of ukps members are display companies owners or freelance firers that can get it from the companies they work for.
#12
Creepin_pyro
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Posted 12 September 2012 - 08:14 AM
The comment on quickmatch and blackmatch tickled me, where could a member of the public buy these products cheaper than I sell them?
Any retailer willing to sell quickmatch/blackmatch to the public. There are quite a few I know of.
#14
Sparky
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Posted 12 September 2012 - 09:23 AM
It's actually quite surprising what is exempt from the relevant sections of COER.
see here
I think the most surprising is Flash 1.1G especially seeing as from what I understand flash is being further restricted in fireworks and that shipping it in quantity is becoming increasingly difficult.
I was chatting to one of the guys in Star Fireworks (Bracknell) and he was saying that it is now so difficult to import flash salutes etc they are having to consider other options when their stores run low. Not sure how accurate that is and if anyone an verify?
He mentioned that flash based rocket headers and bombettes cakes are pretty much unavailable for general sale to the public.
#15
phildunford
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Posted 12 September 2012 - 09:59 AM
I wonder if any retailers would be willing to sell to bona fide UKPS members on proof of membership?
Not sure how that might work, just thinking out loud...
Not sure how that might work, just thinking out loud...
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