28 replies to this topic

[cooperman435]

Fusing at your place of storage is permissible in your storage regs, transport is as ever the gray area though I appreciate this is simply legal issues not safety concerns. After a discussion with Martin French at the HSE a short while ago he concluded that as long as articles were transported as per standard legal methods (UN box closed up) that their fusing status wont be an issue.

 

Regarding safety I do fuse at stores and transport to site as the time to do so is far better in the warmth and light, also waterproofing properly is impossible pre fusing. I add three pieces of BM to each igniter and have the shroud covering the head for friction and crush protection, then the whole thing is taped into the QM and arranged into a safe position to minimize risk, wires are shunted for the sake of static protection.

[starseeker]

I am with both of you. And having a large show (for us at least) comming up tomorrow we took the middle ground. All igns attached to the mortars. Shells in place but no connection between igns and qm. So, once on site the igns go in the qms and the predefined wire to the slats. This works fine on a sunny afternoon but not so well on a cold rainy day. I have been toying around with the plastic connectors that come with some of the shells these days. They might make things easier. My biggest worry with ematches is friction and shock.

 

I think i have got the wrong end of the stick here,but reading the above post it reads like you are transporting the shells pre loaded in the mortars and then wireing on site?

[cooperman435]

On second read I see that too?

 

Are you classing the igniter as the point of danger so transporting shells loaded but not ignitered?

[aquarius]

No. My bad.

The igniters are prewired to the mortars, not the shells.

Shells are transported in original boxes with UN-labels as they come from the importer.

 

Reading Coopermans alternative is interresting.

If prewired articles in original UN-labeled boxes are allowed, part of my problem is solved.

The reason I started this tread was to raise the discussion on how to do things safe AND workefficient.

 

And, I deem prewiring in a controlled environment a far better solution than wiring on site.

I am still however, conserned with sensitive igniters prewired to shells.

[Karl Mitchell-Shead]

While transporting shells with ignitors in place is a bad idea I don't really see the danger of moving items like single shots with ignitors in place, no different to single shot gerbs, ground maroons and the like with ignitors installed at manufacture. Providing the ignitor is safe within the solid housing of a firework and the ignitor is shunted, unless you drive into the field of some Ming induction death ray they won't just spontaneously ignite.

 

Same goes for cakes, if you install the ignitor and tuck the ignitor and QM deep into a tube, the ignitor is protected.

 

There was an article in fireworks magazine about transporting with ignitors pre-installed very interesting read, particularly discussing the purpose of the plastic shrouds and preventing interaction with BP grains.

[aquarius]

Thanks Mastrechief, would you have a copy or a link? It could be an interesting read, really.

 

As for cakes, fountain etc I agree, prefusing pose no "real" problem, at least when it comes to indution and static electicity.

Some articles come prefuses anyway, esp the indoor pyro stuff.

 

But as for pro fireworks, if yoy install the ignitor, it still is a fused article, and could be against regs. But as Cooperman writes, it might also not be...

 

If I understand my ADR/RID-regs properly, the reason you pack and label your pyrostuff is basically twofold.

 

The first is that your articles are protected from outside and inside shock, friction, heat and whatever you are carrying is sensitive about.

This is where installing a igniter with a shock or friction sensitive pyrogen comes into play. SFI's might be a my sloution to this. We'll see.

 

The second is labeling in case of an accident or fire, so that the EMS can identify your cargo and take the right precautions.

 

This is very crude summary, so please feel free to comment.

[dave]

so whats the big deal here ?

as someone stated earlier, all stage pyro is pre fused and transported as such.

 

the risk would seem in actually assessing the risk by doing it yourself perhaps

 

all stage pyro is made in licensed premises

 

a no.6 ground maroon going off is going to be just as bad as a shell i would think, perhaps even worse

 

dave

[Karl Mitchell-Shead]

If you're dead set on eliminating all risk....... don't use fireworks................

[digger]

I have been following this one with some interest, to see if a definitive answer would pop out.

 

I guess the issue is "is it safe" and there are three supporting pieces of legislation that need to be adhered to, MSER 2005, ADR 2011 and CDG (uk specific additions to ADR)

 

mmmm MSER 2005 OK either way as far as I can tell. ADR 2011 well that is an interesting one, are the packages invalidated because they no longer contain exactly what they were tested with? Well that depends on what was written on the form when the tests were carried out on the box, so could be ok or not ok for transport.

 

What are the real risks, I am with several on here that fusing in a controlled dry environment and transporting to the venue is the safest option, as long as the shroud is in place over the head as it should be and the cable has not been uncoiled (back and forth loops cancel out em interference effects). The jet of flame that pops out of the shroud should easily light quick match without the need for bits of black match jammed in there.

 

I will happily change my opinion if someone can give me good evidence of risks of this procedure. Who here has ever experienced an ematch igniting by itself when the shroud remains in place? how many boxes of ematches have you had go off in transport?

 

D

[martyn]

I recently sold my car. Whilst clearing it out I found a tangle of live ematches in a door pocket which I reckon had been in there for about 3 years.

The car has been parked underneath a powerful tetra radio transmitter aerial and a tower housing god knows what other transmitting equipment, weekly.

Its done tens of thousands of bumpy miles, had kids showing all manner of crap on top of the matches. Been baked in the sun. They haven't gone off.

I know that means they won't, but I reckon the real risk is low.

Solar flares probably reduce the already tiny risk alarp.

Then it's just down to your interpretation of the regs whether you want to do it or not..

One issue with sfi's is that not all firing systems will cope with them, particularly if the pulse is short or if there are multiple units per cue, depending on wiring config.

[aquarius]

I had a chat with Scott, who makes the Cobra system. As for now, SFI' s are out of the question due to capacity of only one per que. So I' ll use my regular igniters for the time beeing.

And after a good discussion on the subject, I have concluded that prefusing with shrouded igns in a warm cosy place, repacking them in the original cartons and taping them up is an acceptable risk. And hopefully within the regulations.

[Karl Mitchell-Shead]

And remember most pyro (I know from our main suppliers) have plastic e-match ports that provide ample protection.

[pyrotrev]

And remember most pyro (I know from our main suppliers) have plastic e-match ports that provide ample protection.

On items that don't have these we shroud the whole igniter with a short length of 12mm pneumatic tubing - costs virtually nothing and withstands the 1lb hammer on anvil test even with relatively sensitive commercial igniters.