85 replies to this topic

[phildunford]

There's not actually a party line on this one!

 

Wayne was asked by HSE to consult us, and I think he's now got lots of opinions to pass back! Although I expect HSE have read this already

 

My personal opinion (as stated) is that it's a waste of time, ineffective, unnecessary and a kerb on our freedoms - broadly agreeing with Digger. However that's just me and not UKPS.

 

UKPS line (of course) is that members should not break the law. I think the most likely outcome of this is that people will stockpile in case the law does come in. Not really a desirable result.

[starseeker]

 

 

 

 

 

 

UKPS line (of course) is that members should not break the law. I think the most likely outcome of this is that people will stockpile in case the law does come in. Not really a desirable result.

But as Wayne has pointed out,

The licence may be needed to purchase and store chemicals,you could stockpile as much as you like but get caught

 

If they bring this in it would be good if it was only for above a certain limit of chemicals, so those who wanted to buy a couple of hundred grams to experiment with (like a lot of us started out) still could ,and then if they decided to get more serious they could.

[whoof]

I would buy a licence only if i had to.
I use other chemicals for non pyro use which are difficult to get so favour the buisness route.

[coalman]

Newly registered here (very rapidly - thanks) but I'd like to chip in.

 

Firstly the UK is unlikely to ignore this EU legislation which they have to implement. I think there needs to be some control over sales of dangerous chemicals but it seems to be going too far if it becomes too hard or too expensive for sane, mature individuals to get them as has sometimes been the case in the past. Registration may help with control but I would like to see the door left open for the casual experimenter to progress on small amounts of safer chems before registering. Anyone who wants larger quantities or more unstable oxidisers or seriously toxic chemicals could then be registered and even potentially tracked across multiple suppliers. Wouldn't this satisfy the terrorist and safety aspects? As far as I can tell the proposals would follow this route. Costs are crucial here though. People who don't have pyro as a main hobby can easily be put off by a big up-front slug of money, especially if it became an annual re-registration.

 

I would register if it was not too expensive and I couldn't do what I wanted without it.

[Arthur Brown]

Now what I would like to see, is that qualified membership of the UKPS (not just the forum) WAS the qualification to buy store and use the chemicals we want. 

[starseeker]

The trouble with that idea at the moment is that there are hundreds of experimenters out there who have never heard of the UKPS

[whoof]

I do not know if this has been mentioned but , the rocket guys used to need a piece of paper (competent persons or somesuch ) to transport apcp propellent grains, this pretty much became a licence as no seller would supply without a photocopy on record.

It was issued by the hse for free.
Would something similar not be appropriate here.

Edit , found mine.
Recipient competent transfer authority.

Edited by whoof, 10 February 2014 - 11:30 PM.

[whoof]

RCA documentation is now automatically granted as part of an acquire and keep BP licence. You no longer have to write a "please can i have one" letter to the HSE. If you get an explosives licence then your RCA is attached. Only for the explosives granted under your licence mind!

Yes , point is though i do not need an explosive licence. Just the rca to transport.

Edit,
The purchases i think we are talking about are for precursors/poisons.
Surely if you have a licence to make or whatever it would automaticaly entitle purchace.

Edited by whoof, 10 February 2014 - 11:51 PM.

[phildunford]

I'd jolly well hope so!  But legislation does strange things to logic!

The only way (currently) you would have a 'licence to make' is if you were a business and this legislation does not apply to business.

 

However, if things go as we want, individuals could make devices (not for for business or profit) then we would need one. As HSE are now testing the software, it seems pretty clear that's the way things are going to go...

[Arthur Brown]

The issue with getting supplies is that few suppliers will transact a £5 order Many will consider a £50 - 250 minimum order

[Arthur Brown]

The trouble with that idea at the moment is that there are hundreds of experimenters out there who have never heard of the UKPS

Consider whether the UKPS could be the licensing body, al of these "other experimenters" would join qualified membership or face the alternatives. 

[Vic]

And what would be the alternative Mr Brown.

A little outspoken our Mr brown can be!

[martyn]

Now what I would like to see, is that qualified membership of the UKPS (not just the forum) WAS the qualification to buy store and use the chemicals we want. 

I couldn't disagree more with this Arthur.

Whilst I support the UKPS, I'm not really sure why, perhaps because there is no alternative in this country and I perhaps feel the need to be part of the club and give mysely a false air of legitimacy :-)

I'm not knocking it (us) I've met some nice and knowledgeble people and some great contacts, but.

We are a fairly haphazard seat of the pants outfit. It would only take three or four of the key players to drop out for the society to fall apart IMHO.

We are not completely representative of the homebrew pyro community, and no better or worse than those other enthusiasts who choose not to join.

Let the govt administer licensing when it comes and let those who don't want to join us be free to be independent.

I'm hoping when / if the law is amended to allow small scale experimentation, a few more people will come out of the woodwork, and join at least the forum, to discuss aspects of what is currently illegal to practice. Without fear of the 0500hrs knock.

[phildunford]

There are very few people waiting to get on the 'hidden forum'. We do try our best!

 

The reason we don't have thousands of members is complex. Fear (quite justified) of 'the knock', the general lack of desire of people to join things, the fact that for some people, experimental pyro is a very occasional hobby and often (I'm afraid) pure apathy.

 

We would love all the new members we can get. The more people we have, the more powerful we become & the less load there is on the poor old, over stretched committee! Any ideas to increase the membership gratefully received!

 

Though I am getting a bit off topic here...

Edited by phildunford, 12 February 2014 - 12:02 AM.

[Karl Mitchell-Shead]

I would apply for a licence.