82 replies to this topic

[Steve]

You also need to check their photo ID, and only sell to the person holding the license, so posting the license isn't good enough. As per post #14 in this thread, the government response did say "The Government feels that as long as suitable checks and safe-guards can be applied, on-line sales could continue." but it looks like this is only if you are willing to deliver the goods to the customer in person.

 

Like Wayne says, I don't see why travelling is such a problem? I've driven across the country before to collect car parts, metalworking tools etc, it's a nice day out, usually have a nice chat with a like minded individual, look around all the neat stuff they have, see a new bit of the country. It's not like you have to do it every week.

[wayne]

Like Wayne says, I don't see why travelling is such a problem? I've driven across the country before to collect car parts, metalworking tools etc, it's a nice day out, usually have a nice chat with a like minded individual, look around all the neat stuff they have, see a new bit of the country. It's not like you have to do it every week.

 

Spot on!  

 

And don't forget, I assume all this could be conducted at meetings etc such as the AGM and other events.

[starseeker]

i may be not seeing this straight but most computers have webcams, could this not be used to verify somebody's licence?

[dannytsg]

Just a question to further the above...

...a registered business/company does not have to be licensed under the specific legislation as stated above.

Does that mean business to business transactions can still be conducted online and delivery of items be via courier? Or must collections be made by the purchasing company or their representative?

Anyone know of suppliers in the northwest of the above items so I haven't got hundreds of miles to travel?

[digger]

No there is no need to collect orders for business to business sales.

[Arthur Brown]

The issue is not simply collection, it's the collection and the reasonable quantities for hobby purposes. I can and do travel miles for other hobbies, BUT I'd be mighty p1ssed off to have to drive 250 miles each way and only get 100g, I'd want to get 20+ kilos then who is going to accept that as "private hobby" or report it as a suspicious sale. Plus there is the issue that sellers may not have premises suitable for hobby sale, It's one thing having a coffee with a long time mate and doing a transaction in their home, but OliverBrown.c has already said he doesn't want or accept callers. 

 

Maybe this will be the catalyst for some better attended club meets for the UKPS, where regulated substances can be passed on sight of licence.

[cooperman435]

Few issues I can see and primarily is that we were told at the last agm that "fake" companies or those set up to circumnavigate the licence would be checked. This coukd result in legal action at the worst and then genuinely prevent you legally continuing the hobby. My advice is as said before if your serious about it do it right, get a licence and go get your goods in person. Less than ideal I realise yes but it's legal and what we ultimately want.

All that said I think its a bloody pain but I will most certainly allow collections in person myself.

[dave]

I have to disagree, if there are no suppliers near you, you are basically stuffed,

and even if you do drive miles you have to make it worthwhile, by buying essentially non hobby quantities, and thus creating potentially

storage issues.

 

a ltd company is a ltd company surely (ie. not a fake company), and if the suppliers know you are a pyro enthusiast surely there should be no problem,

[Arthur Brown]

Currently I see problems for suppliers, especially those with big stocks. Sales have to be face to face with licence and registers, unless you have "shop hours" then you are stuffed with stock that you can't sell and that we can't buy.

 

UKPS can offer to host monthly meets where mail ordered transactions can be concluded face to face, but in reality turnout to UKPS events is usually low. 

 

Maybe some suppliers could organise a group market where licences can be seen and products ordered by web can bed traded over the counter with licences.

[dave]

how about using mobile phone technology?

 

face to face does not have to be person to person

 

send the certificate off to supplier to sign put order on etc, and he then phones up for face to face on mobile phone,

sends certificate back with order

 

authentication can be done many ways in this modern world

[dannytsg]

Few issues I can see and primarily is that we were told at the last agm that "fake" companies or those set up to circumnavigate the licence would be checked. This coukd result in legal action at the worst and then genuinely prevent you legally continuing the hobby. My advice is as said before if your serious about it do it right, get a licence and go get your goods in person. Less than ideal I realise yes but it's legal and what we ultimately want.

All that said I think its a bloody pain but I will most certainly allow collections in person myself.

 

So with regards to collection of items. Let's say that Person A, a hobbyist pyrotechnician has no suppliers of the above chemicals within 100 miles of them. Could they set up a company to enable them to carry of practising the hobby and allowing them to receive a business to business transaction and still legally be within the bounds of the law?

 

I am fully aware that the seller must be satisifed that the transaction is being used as per the legislation but could the face to face license/collection issue potentially exclude certain hobbyists from continuing to practise?

[wayne]

The thing that really gripped my sh*t was the suggestion that at the UKPS AGM we could all pick up our Perch! Christ this is not all about the UKPS there are people out there that don’t want to be part of a club but have a passion for the hobby and want to be legal.  

 

It was a suggestion that I thought some may find useful, obviously not in your case.  Ironic though that you are bemoaning issues caused by the pre-cursor legislation on a UKPS forum.  Can I ask if you responded to the pre-cursor consultation? 

 

Also, its worth noting that if it wasn't for the UKPS, the hobby you wish to pursue in a legal manner quite possibly wouldn't exist.  I suggest you show a little respect for the society and its efforts which have allowed you to continue pursuing experimental pyrotechnics and to sell your wares.

 

Any suggestion of creating a "fake" company will be severely frowned upon by those in authority.  If you happy to stand up in court and defend a company which has never traded, then feel free to go for it!  

 

Lastly, and this is to all, this is brand new legislation and inevitable there will be teething problems.  The HO/HSE/et all, are all reasonable people, If there's a problem, we can take it to them and they will listen.  What is useless however is moaning and ranting about problems that may or may not even be there.  If there's a problems, lets find what it is and present it too them.  There is a definite issue with some here that find it easy to moan about something but do absolutely nothing to help or offer and idea of a better way.  Come on lads, surely we're better than this, you sound like a bunch of old women! 

Edited by wayne, 02 September 2014 - 03:03 PM.

[wayne]

Moving on...if anyone has any constructive suggestions to issues raised here that they would like me to pass on to the HO, please let me know.

Edited by wayne, 02 September 2014 - 04:14 PM.

[wayne]

Yes home office visitations circa 2013! 

 

Please explain...

[starseeker]

If a scanned copy of my insurance and storage facilities which is then emailed to any suppliers who i would like to buy my cat4 stock from is ok, than why not as suggested use mobiles to check identity etc,and then a scanned copy could be sent over for signing which could then be re-scanned and emailed back. I know this could lead to quite a lot of paperwork but there would be a paper trail to follow if need be and mail order could continue.