82 replies to this topic

[maxman]

10 kilos of what though? the same chemical or 1kg each of 10 chems? I bought a 25kg bag of kn03  but that was 11 years ago and still have half of it left. Surely 1kg at a time of each can't be considered to much?? If you want 10kg of each then you must be making a lot of 100g batches

 

Rod

[wayne]

10 kilos of what though? the same chemical or 1kg each of 10 chems? I bought a 25kg bag of kn03  but that was 11 years ago and still have half of it left. Surely 1kg at a time of each can't be considered to much?? If you want 10kg of each then you must be making a lot of 100g batches

 

Rod

 

Multiple kg's of each of the restricted chemicals.  Yes, each manufacture device/composition must be limited to 100g, but that doesn't mean the precursors must be limited to that amount!

 

It's totally acceptable and practical that you have enough of the required chemicals to perform a "reasonable" number of 100g experiment without having to restock, its just common sense...

 

Yet again, I repeat, why is everyone stating only collecting 100g of a chosen chemical?  I see no reference in the precursor regulations on restricting amounts to that level.

Edited by wayne, 04 September 2014 - 01:43 PM.

[Arthur Brown]

The issue is to find some consensus of "reasonable quantities" that comes between too little to be useful and "suspicious" in the meaning of the regs.

 

100g is clearly ludicrous 100Kilos is probably OTT, Maybe a stock holding of 50kilos total may be fair, 

[rocketpro]

Yet again, I repeat, why is everyone stating only collecting 100g of a chosen chemical?  I see no reference in the precursor regulations on restricting amounts to that level.

 

Wayne,

 

As far as I can see only two people have mentioned the 100 grammes.

 

I`m sure everyone who has read the new regs have the intelligence to realise that they will be permitted to buy larger amounts than that.

 

I think that Phil was just making a point that travelling many miles for a small quantity of chems isn`t worthwhile.

[wayne]

Two things then:

 

 

1.  Clarify with the HO is if the licence verification can be done without being face-to-face?

2.  If verification is done face-to-face, collect enough chemical to ensure stock for 1-2 (or whatever you feel reasonable without stock piling) years.

 

Is that it?  If so, that is a whole lot of responses to a thread just to get to that!

Edited by wayne, 04 September 2014 - 03:47 PM.

[rocketpro]

Does this not still apply then for Internet sales?

 

Suggestions for compliance.

 

3. In order to meet the requirements of the Regulation, depending on your company’s 

circumstances, you could:

Before the transaction is completed

a. ask for the customer to provide a scanned copy of their licence before they are 

able to complete a transaction for a regulated substance. 

b. If you require customers to register for a customer account, you could allow them 

to upload a scanned copy of their licence to their account record;

c. The Home Office is developing an on-line licence number checking tool. This will 

allow you to enter the licence number and an identity detail, such as the 

customer’s date of birth or surname into a form to check whether it is a valid 

licence number and the licence number is associated with that individual.

Before handing over the regulated substance

4. Ask the delivery driver to undertake the following steps on your behalf:

a. Check that the photographic ID matches the person and that the photographic ID

reference matches the ID reference on the licence front page. Remember, the 

regulated substance must only be given to the licence holder. It cannot be left with 

another individual.

b. Check the product being purchased is allowed as part of the licence conditions:

i. Substance

ii. Concentration

iii. Quantity

(You will need to share the information about the product with the delivery organisation to 

enable this.)

c. Record the transaction details in the table on the back of the licence.

[rocketpro]

nice post: internet sales are finished:   c. Record the transaction details in the table on the back of the licence.

Read carefully. The delivery driver is asked to do this.

 

4. Ask the delivery driver to undertake the following steps on your behalf:

Edited by rocketpro, 04 September 2014 - 05:23 PM.

[martyn]

This is what I'd hope to be able to do.

 

Order a drum of perc. from one of the usual suppliers. Plus any other prohibited stuff.

Collect it.

Store it correctly.

Use it for the next 5 - 25 years.

 

The perc is only transported once (safer), it is transported and stored in its original container (safer), it's not difficult to store (about the size of a 'chip shop' oil drum. you'd get it a a good price for drum qty. (cheaper)

What's the problem, possession with a legitimate use is perfectly legal. I'd have plenty so if any local licensed experimenter needed a bit I could lend or sell them a bit face to face.

People who didn't want to buy or store bulk could make a journey every year or buy at the agm or 'get togethers'.

Mail order is still ok for loads of other chemicals we use.

It doesn't seem that difficult to me?

[rocketpro]

One possible problem there Martyn,

 

I don`t think the licence allows you to purchase unlimited quantities  - I believe you have to stipulate the approximate amount you will need.

 

Don`t forget they can refuse you a licence if they so choose.  

[Arthur Brown]

All the couriers I've ever come across wouldn't be able to manage to handle signing properly for a parcel except possibly my local post office delivery office,  (but no-one would want to pay their prices for a 5kilo delivery). My new passport came by courier who couldn't find my house despite the fact that 52 comes between 50 and 54 on a simple straight road, shouldn't DX Passport couriers be the best?

 

The licence at the moment precludes mail order as sales must be recorded on the licence and the vendor must see the licence, SO what is a fair quantity to order and store at home? We have said that 100g is too little but we haven't a clue what is a fair quantity. Personally I'd like to have a year's usage of chems so that I could minimise purchase travel expense, Maybe transact at the AGM! 

[Vic]

I don't know about the rest of you, but I know roughly what I will need in the year ahead So quite happy to pick up from the AGM or travel to my nearest suppler, even if it is 200 mile round trip.

[Arthur Brown]

Exactly. I'll happily travel for my hobby, BUT it's got to be proportional, long journey large pick up.

[dave]

please clarify if

 

face to face can be done on a mobile, lets try to use technology,

 

face to face is not person to person, although in spirit they probably did mean person to person

[wayne]

Then yes that would be a good starting point at your next meeting with the HO/HSE, 2 out of 10 that’s pretty good from a complaints point of view Wayne.

Im not sure if youre trying to be funny or sarcastic here. Please let me know what your other 8 issues are?

Edited by wayne, 05 September 2014 - 05:45 AM.

[fruitfulsteve]

Just checked out a few BP suppliers and (providing you have an A&Q) they will send you your BP via TNT.

 

How does this work with checking validity ?

 

Why can't the same rules that apply to acquiring explosives be applied to acquiring explosive precursors ?