78 replies to this topic

[dannytsg]

Good idea, would save a lot of travel to.

 

I have just quickly put the attached PDF together based on the information provided in the UKPS guidance document. This was done using an on-line platform but I can't publish the on-line one for viewing without upgrading to a premium service which is $44 per year.

 

In my opinion this would be beneficial to members and wouldn't take a lot of time or resources to be done by the UKPS. I would in fact be happy to pay the subscription fee and take this forward if it benefits the society and it's members.

 

https://mega.co.nz/#...HSLTo7Ni8rnHvLI

Edited by dannytsg, 24 October 2014 - 08:50 AM.

[wayne]

Good stuff Danny, it all sounds to have gone as I suggested.  Good to hear that the ELO is aware of the guidance and referencing your UKPS membership.  Its goes to show that membership of the UKPS is more than worth the measly £20 per year!

 

During the process of the ELR and creation of the guidance, I suggested organising "training" of the regulations (explanations of each area in the guidance document).  Naturally, this would cross over into practical aspects of experimentation as well.  As it stands, nothing as yet been planned.  As you can imagine, this in itself it a big piece of work to undertake and must be designed and implemented to ensure 100% legality - we can't make any mistakes when creating training materials.  This is why the guidance document took so long to generate, it has to be watertight from a legal standpoint.

 

In the short-term, I would suggest that competence is gained by:

 

• Sharing knowledge through the UKPS and its forums  
• Reading pyro literature 
• Organise meetings with other UKPS members
• Joining the IExpE who already have entry tests

 

Remember, the UKPS is your society, it doesn't mean that everything has to organised by the committee.  You could start writing your own training material with a view to rolling this out as a training course provided through the society - everyone can play a part!

 

PS.  I will be updating the guidance document in the next few days following my discussions with a group of prominent ELO's.  They are only minor changes, but the feedback I got regarding the guidance document was fantastic.  They were very complimentary and appreciative of the effort that has gone into the guidance.  This really demonstrates how far we have come and how accepted experimental pyrotechnics has become!

 

Its an exciting future!

[dannytsg]

Good stuff Danny, it all sounds to have gone as I suggested.  Good to hear that the ELO is aware of the guidance and referencing your UKPS membership.  Its goes to show that membership of the UKPS is more than worth the measly £20 per year!

 

During the process of the ELR and creation of the guidance, I suggested organising "training" of the regulations (explanations of each area in the guidance document).  Naturally, this would cross over into practical aspects of experimentation as well.  As it stands, nothing as yet been planned.  As you can imagine, this in itself it a big piece of work to undertake and must be designed and implemented to ensure 100% legality - we can't make any mistakes when creating training materials.  This is why the guidance document took so long to generate, it has to be watertight from a legal standpoint.

 

In the short-term, I would suggest that competence is gained by:

 

• Sharing knowledge through the UKPS and its forums  
• Reading pyro literature 
• Organise meetings with other UKPS members
• Joining the IExpE who already have entry tests

 

Remember, the UKPS is your society, it doesn't mean that everything has to organised by the committee.  You could start writing your own training material with a view to rolling this out as a training course provided through the society - everyone can play a part!

 

PS.  I will be updating the guidance document in the next few days following my discussions with a group of prominent ELO's.  They are only minor changes, but the feedback I got regarding the guidance document was fantastic.  They were very complimentary and appreciative of the effort that has gone into the guidance.  This really demonstrates how far we have come and how accepted experimental pyrotechnics has become!

 

Its an exciting future!

 

Wayne - with that in mind would you please have a look at the following link. It is a sample test I put together using the information in the UKPS document. ideally this would be something that all members undertake and a record kept of the results. This could be done on-line but at the moment, as I didn't get a pro membership to the website used to make it, I can't publish on-line, I can only download it as a PDF.

 

I would be happy to try and produce such tests in conjunction with the UKPS committee to help push forward the verification of theoretical knowledge and competence if it benefit the society and it's members.

 

https://mega.co.nz/#...HSLTo7Ni8rnHvLI

[rocketpro]

 

 

In the short-term, I would suggest that competence is gained by:

 

• Sharing knowledge through the UKPS and its forums  
• Reading pyro literature 
• Organise meetings with other UKPS members
• Joining the IExpE who already have entry tests

 

Perhaps this could also be done by having a section where certain members with 

extensive hands on experience can offer guidance on a certain procedure. 

(This could avoid any misleading or inaccurate advice from the less well 

informed (It would also help to keep a safer, tight and well managed section)

 

An alphabetical list of chemicals and their incompatibilities etc, with

recommendations of pyrotechnic books and journals to read.

 

Building up a repository where previous posts and consequent advice can be

referred to for guiding them in their actions and safety requirements.

 

 

[martyn]

Wayne - with that in mind would you please have a look at the following link. It is a sample test I put together using the information in the UKPS document. ideally this would be something that all members undertake and a record kept of the results. This could be done on-line but at the moment, as I didn't get a pro membership to the website used to make it, I can't publish on-line, I can only download it as a PDF.

 

I would be happy to try and produce such tests in conjunction with the UKPS committee to help push forward the verification of theoretical knowledge and competence if it benefit the society and it's members.

 

https://mega.co.nz/#...HSLTo7Ni8rnHvLI

Danny?, top marks for enthusiasm.

I know you asked for Wayne's opinion, but I'll give you mine :-)

1. Question 5, you ask for two explosive precursors, but there is only one on the list of choices.

2. It seems a bit easy, not at all testing, but there again not too dissimilar from bpa tests.

3. Question 4, acquire and acquire and keeps have got nothing to do with precursor legislation.

Also may be an idea to rename the pdf, it isn't (yet :-)) the ukps "legilsative" knowledge test. It may be downloaded by someone and then shared or uploaded elsewhere.

I don't mean to sound negative - the ukps needs people like you.

Cheers,

Martyn

[dannytsg]

Martin,

Duly noted and can be amended to suit.

With regards to it being easy, this was just information presented in the UKPS guidance document that ideally we should all know, hence putting it together in a quiz.

I appreciate it isn't UKPS approved yet, I named it such as an example of what it could be.

Hopefully with input from all the members we can devise some sort of knowledge based competence test that would be beneficial.

Edited by dannytsg, 25 October 2014 - 08:56 PM.

[fruitfulsteve]

Looks good but i think it should include some practical do's and don'ts chlorate/ammonium salts, chlorate/sulfur, nitrates/magnesium, fuse burn rates, safety precautions when ramming/pressing rocket motors etc, maybe some storage questions and such like.

 

All in all i think it's a good idea and certainly worth pursuing however i do think it will need to be approved by the HSE/HO before they would accept it as proof of competence and i wouldn't expect that to happen overnight.

[dannytsg]

Looks good but i think it should include some practical do's and don'ts chlorate/ammonium salts, chlorate/sulfur, nitrates/magnesium, fuse burn rates, safety precautions when ramming/pressing rocket motors etc, maybe some storage questions and such like.

All in all i think it's a good idea and certainly worth pursuing however i do think it will need to be approved by the HSE/HO before they would accept it as proof of competence and i wouldn't expect that to happen overnight.

I was personally thinking of having more than one addressing different issues/topics.

The first being the legislative knowledge we should all know before even taking steps into experimental pyrotechnics. Then one about practical methodology and do's/don't woth regards to the construction of comps etc.

I was going to start a separate thread asking what members would like to see/put forward and see if we all can contribute and bring such a document together.

[rocketpro]

That`s something I for one would really like to see Dan.

Not so much as a document though but something in a more structured form of what we already have, along the lines of general safety advice etc. Wayne and myself alluded to that a few posts back.

Edited by rocketpro, 26 October 2014 - 08:11 AM.

[digger]

So have you guys asked for any UN numbers between UN0476 and UN0481 ?

[rocketpro]

Can flash and pyro comps not be on acquire and keep at <100g? as there are no separation distances. Having said that personally I refer to star comps as there is no need to keep flash anyway.

 

My concern is that acquire only states to be used immediately and not kept overnight. Didn't want to fall foul of this while drying stars for a week.

 

Rod

This is what I`ll be asking the ELO when he visits as this is really what I want.

I have no need to store BP in quantity when it can be made in a few minutes.

[rocketpro]

So have you guys asked for any UN numbers between UN0476 and UN0481 ?

Before I applied for mine (coer 1 about 5 weeks ago) I searched around the Internet. I found what seemed to be an official page (which I can`t seem to find now) which said there is no need to add any other specific chemicals so I just applied for A&K UN0027

Edited by rocketpro, 26 October 2014 - 03:27 PM.

[dannytsg]

I asked the ELO specifically about base chemicals for the manufacture of UN number explosives such as BP and flash. They said they have no interest or jurisdiction over base chemicals for compositions, only the compositions that need a COER to acquire and or keep.

I only applied for A&K for UN00027 & UN00028 at this stage and if granted will subsequently apply for an acquire only for flash.

[rocketpro]

Good info Dan thanks. That`s what I propose to do too.

[rocketpro]

I`m hoping they can just put 100g max on the A&K certificate for BP so there`s no mix up with the acquire only and no hold up in my application.

Edited by rocketpro, 26 October 2014 - 04:20 PM.