78 replies to this topic

[dannytsg]

So I have my ELO visit booked in next week for a chat and discussion about my A&K for BP but I was wondering what exactly to expect.

 

As it stands I have bought a storage box which is fully compliant to the guidelines and I have printed off the UKPS guidance document and collated it into a folder with my lists of compositions.

 

I was just really wondering what to expect in terms of the visit, will they want to look everywhere in the house etc or are they specifically concerned with whether I am a suitable person to hold such a certificate etc.

 

Thanks 

 

Dan

Edited by dannytsg, 16 October 2014 - 08:03 AM.

[maxman]

Danny have you got an alarm on your house? It's a requirement for GMP. Also somewhere safe to keep the box locked away. This is also a requirement so that anyone living with you or coming into your house who does not have a certificate cannot get access and therefore be in possession of BP. Its best if you have this sorted before he comes then you can show him where you want it to go and see if he agrees.

 

Have you made two applications? one for acquire only and one for acquire and keep?

 

Rod

[dannytsg]

Danny have you got an alarm on your house? It's a requirement for GMP. Also somewhere safe to keep the box locked away. This is also a requirement so that anyone living with you or coming into your house who does not have a certificate cannot get access and therefore be in possession of BP. Its best if you have this sorted before he comes then you can show him where you want it to go and see if he agrees.

 

Have you made two applications? one for acquire only and one for acquire and keep?

 

Rod

 

Rod,

 

Yes we have a house alarm, it is not monitored but it is working and in use. 

 

I have 3 potential locations in mind for the location of the box, but how suitable they area will be down to the ELO. 2 are in the kitchen where the compartments will be secured with lock and hasp and the other being in our bedroom locked away in a wardrobe compartment. I do have further possibilities but I am also aware that the stored BP shouldn't be near any egress routes in the event of a fire.

 

I have only applied at present for the A&K for BP and will have the discussion with the ELO about flash and apply for an acquire only from there. 

 

I really just want to show the ELO that I am capable and responsible with regards to these things and that I am not taking it lightly and understand the implications and extents of this.

 

Would it be worth printing off another copy of the UKPS guidance document and having it to hand for the ELO should they wish to have a look/take it away?

Edited by dannytsg, 16 October 2014 - 09:27 AM.

[Bob Twells]

It will be very interesting to hear how you get on, as I'm sure many readers are unsure whether to apply yet, so hoping for some good news on how smoothy it goes!

 

Keep us posted. Maybe a short article for Spark would be good once you've been through it, with any tips or advice for others?

[dannytsg]

It will be very interesting to hear how you get on, as I'm sure many readers are unsure whether to apply yet, so hoping for some good news on how smoothy it goes!

Keep us posted. Maybe a short article for Spark would be good once you've been through it, with any tips or advice for others?

Would be happy to do a write up if it is of interest. Obviously my view and experience will be of one Police force buy I'll let you know how it goes and if any points of specific interest come up in the ELO discussionz

[phildunford]

Danny have you got an alarm on your house? It's a requirement for GMP. Also somewhere safe to keep the box locked away. This is also a requirement so that anyone living with you or coming into your house who does not have a certificate cannot get access and therefore be in possession of BP. Its best if you have this sorted before he comes then you can show him where you want it to go and see if he agrees.

 

Have you made two applications? one for acquire only and one for acquire and keep?

 

Rod

Pardon my ignorance - GMP?

Edited by phildunford, 16 October 2014 - 07:52 PM.

[maxman]

Greater Manchester police

 

Did you get yours Phil? I seem to remember a while ago you said you were going to apply

 

Rod

[phildunford]

Ah! I see.

 

No, never did. Moving and many other things got in the way, but I still will if it looks a practical proposition. Materials for building my lab are still sitting in my field - maybe this winter...

 

Very little point putting an alarm on my place. Nearest neighbour half a mile & nearest police station 3 miles - any burglars would be long gone. Massive dog would do the trick!

 

Don't know if alarm would be a requirement in Dorset, if so, would add considerably to the already mounting costs...

[Arthur Brown]

From a conversation with someone who knows the regs well, an alarm is needed for the storage of listed explosives (inc BP and flash) if they are stored away from your home. If they are IN your home then they will likely not need an alarm but will need security against possession by unauthorised people (even unticketed family members). 

[maxman]

I can only speak from what my ELO told me. He said it was THEIR criteria. He said other forces may have their own criteria GMP insist on house alarm and locked away.

 

Rod

[Arthur Brown]

My contact is a Yorkshire ELO so obviously he knows the regs as enforced there which isn't far from GMP's patch. Other forces may have different views on the regs.

[Rip Rap]

My ELO (Durham) came a few weeks ago to see me to renew my A&K B.P. certificate.

I asked him about adding flash to it. He said there was no need as flash was exempt. I then told him about the changes and clarification to reg 9 (2) (a) and that flash was no longer exempt from October.

He was a bit taken aback, but very interested and I gave him a copy of Wayne's presentation.

He was honest and said that he really didn't know if flash could go on my A&K. He said it may need a separate Acquire only certificate. He was going to need to ask colleagues.

It will be interesting to see what is on my A&K cert when it arrives. I have a feeling it will be just B.P. and I will have to apply again for flash.

 

Danny - the ELO's visit is to evaluate you in person (make sure you haven't got battle flags hanging on your walls etc) and assess where you will be storing. They will go through your application with you and ask anything they want clarifying. BTW Durham don't require that your house is alarmed, just secure - double glazed windows, triple lock exterior doors etc.

Edited by Rip Rap, 17 October 2014 - 06:11 AM.

[maxman]

Danny, RipRap is correct, I forgot to mention about the triple lock doors. It was also asked if we'd had any trouble, break ins etc and if we had any security cameras.

 

About flash, well more about other pyro comps really as there is no need to store flash anyway. Can I ask, if pyro comps in general are on acquire only how does this stand with regards to drying stars? Acquire states that explosives are used immediately and not kept overnight! Drying stars in most cases will need longer than overnight to dry.

 

 

Rod

[dannytsg]

Maxman - We have a porch at the front with single lock and safety chain and then our main front door is triple lock, same at the back; so hopefully security wise we will be okay in conjunction with the house alarm and our dog. 

 

All being well I should be okay, I feel I have done everything I can to demonstrate that I am going to be responsible and capable of storing BP safely. Just to be safe I have also printed off the UKPS guidance document along with the HSE guidance on safety and storage and compiled a folder of relevant information to try and show I am at least aware of the legislation if they ask.

[wayne]

The main thing is, be honest and upfront.  Background check will be done on you, so they will have a good ideas already if you're "of good character".

 

Knowledge of the area you are requesting the certificate for is always a must, but there's probably a good chance that your ELO won't know as much as you do about pyrotechnics (This isn't always the case but the area of explosives they cover is far larger than pyro).  Competence is always a difficult thing to demonstrate (without examination) so your ELO will simply be looking to check you are of good character, have an appropriate environment to store, have good reason and justification for the certificate request and that you have a general knowledge of the area of use.  Any extra affiliations to bodies such as the UKPS will also help demonstrate competence so don't forget to get your membership card out! 

 

Each police authority have their own requirements, so just go with whatever your ELO's requirements are.  If they come and require something that you haven't got, don't worry.  Correct what they need and they will happily come back and re-inspect.  I know the ELO's are working towards standardising the requirements across all authorities, but for now, just let your ELO tell you what they need.