18 replies to this topic

[David G]

Ok folks,here is what I feel seems to be happening. If you are in the
GMP area then the ELO does not grant you an A&K except under very rare
cases. So,what I would like is to ask all those in this (GMP) area
to pm me regardless of success or failure in your application. Then we
would also need the information from people in other police force areas
regarding their success/failure. We should then,hopefully,have some evidence
to take to the superior of the GMP ELO with regards his lack of knowledge
and disregard for the laws in this matter. Then we may be in a position to
move forward.

Mr Frangleton of the GMP must realise that he is not above the law
and should apply the rules fairly.

[rocketpro]

Was it Mr Frangleton that issued your A&K David?

[David G]

Not until a very long time had passed. Over six months. My epp took 8 weeks.
Any not concerned about me. We need to get this sorted for others asap

Edited by David G, 13 January 2015 - 05:23 PM.

[rocketpro]

We most certainly do, and any additional information however small will aid in that endeavour.

 

Arthur Browns request in `conversations` re; a list would be a good start.

[David G]

Agreed All I can say is that I clearly stated that my requirement was for experimental pyrotecnical
uses up to a maximum of 100grammes of black powder. Sorry to be so vague but I did not think to keep
a copy.

[Arthur Brown]

Please use the conversations thread and complete the list for me. I have one person I can talk to about this but I MUST have all the FACTS in detail.

[maxman]

Sorry, where is the conversations thread? I searched but can't find one.

 

Rod

[David G]

Yes,please tell us how many of the committee have both the EPP and COER1 and what police forces you are under. Then we,the majority of the society will let you know how many of us have them and which
police forces we are under. I do not believe that you on the board have any interest in us so long as you,the elite few,can continue. Prove me wrong if you can.
I realize that this post is liable to get me banned from here and if I am,that would
just prove my point about the few. The needs of the many do outweigh the needs of the few. The laws need to be applied fairly or not at all. If they are not fairly applied then they are not just and as such are,in fact,illegal. We may as well be back to the days BEFORE the changes touted by this society as fair and good for the pyro community.

Edited by David G, 13 January 2015 - 10:23 PM.

[cooperman435]

Im confused now, please can we claify whats being asked or suggested?

 

 

I dont see why

"how many of the committee have both the EPP and COER1 and what police forces you are under. Then we,the majority of the society will let you know how many of us have them and which" 

is needed? It comes across very negatively as somehow either committee members holding them alters something?

 

We are actually asking so as to establish if there is a trend such as ONLY GMP area being refused their applications, with the intention to help with the situation. We (or anyone) however cannot assist without data first as we could claim there's a problem and then not be able to back it up with evidence of the issue.

 

HOWEVER I find your next comment 

" I do not believe that you on the board have any interest in us so long as you,the elite few,can continue. Prove me wrong if you can."

is just pointless and unfounded, I have no intention of "proving you wrong" as there is no evidence to even suggest this is the case. We are in the same boat as you and doing everything we can to help, why would you believe otherwise?

 

Your comment wont get you banned (certainly not from me anyway) but it does make me wonder in what world you see any reason to think we are either benefiting in this situation due to our committee positions or how we could be? If you wish to make accusations then please do so with some form of evidence or explanation as to how you came to these far fetched opinions.

 

How exactly are the laws NOT being aplied fairly?

 

Please simply for the people reading this can you explain what you think is "going on" as Ive not a clue from your sudden rant at us?

 

Ill add Im not trying to start any form of argument, Im genuinely asking if your happy to explain this recent post.

[David G]

OK,

I have been informed that several people (fair enough heresay and not just UKPS committee members) that are in close contact with the HO have been granted both the A&K and EPP licences rapidly.

It would be helpful to know how many people on this forum have been granted the A&K and which police force was involved to,as you state,see whether there is a problem with a specific area (GMP is mine and a few others that are having difficulties) This would then give a CLEAR (hopefully) picture as to the situation. Also,seeing who has been granted the EPP prior to the granting of an A&K could help as their experience may be that the EPP was a help. The negative may of course be true.

 

I have found that there are members here that,despite the difficulties so far,seem to be getting nowhere. They have put info onto the forums about this but no resolutions have appeared. This is where I get the impression that there is no help forthcoming from the committee.

 

If my information is wrong,I apologise but,I do feel that,being a committee member has to be of some help to the individual that is applying for licences.

 

My specific argument is with the ELO of GMP. He consistently passes the buck to his superiors,promises telephone calls with updates and then sits on his backside and does nothing. This person,in particular,is not applying the law fairly. There is no need to go back twenty or thirty years as he does to see if a person is of good character. In my case,he quoted a "difficulty" in my application due to having been reported missing twenty-five years ago. Admittedly,then,I had suffered a nervous breakdown but to use that alone as a reason to put up blocks is a load of bollocks. I have not been under treatment for twenty three years but to quote him "we don't want to give people like you the ability to harm themselves or others" This was both unneccesary and derogatory. It was also not politically correct to imply that,once a loony,always a loony. It took a hell of a lot of pressure to get him to rethink.

 

I am truly piss%d off with narrow minded cretins like him in the world. He is so far out of touch with reality and needs to attend a psych unit as an inpatient himself to cure him of his delusions that ALL pyro's are dangerous.

Edited by David G, 14 January 2015 - 02:30 AM.

[pyrothrust]

I have to say my ELO was a pleasure to work with and took more interest in another hobby that I am involved in . It took approx Four weeks from application and this was mainly down to the fact that I live about the furthest point in his Region and He was combining a few shot gun licenses at the same time near to me. every detail I wrote on the application was correct. Something I did when I was very young and not proud of in another country was included and these details were on his form he brought with him. The other benefit is that he now issues my firework storage as well due to my Acquire and Keep, and has the authority to issue up to Five years. Although I have Two company's that cover and allow my purchase of EPP's I went for the application which took just over Three weeks. The Home Office were very helpful and although difficult at times to speak to it could be done and they did return my phone calls It was also surprising to see exactly how much they know>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  

Edited by pyrothrust, 14 January 2015 - 08:18 AM.

[rocketpro]

Sorry, where is the conversations thread? I searched but can't find one.

 

Rod

The very one you`re posting in Rod. (personal conversations)

[maxman]

I am in GMP area and have applied for A&K BP and Acquire only for <100g pyrotechnic composition including flash UN0305 I had a visit at the end of September but have heard nothing since. I have not been refused nor have I been granted COER. I have not applied yet for EPP as I have no intentions to buy anything on the list at present.

 

I do not want to give full details of a private meeting with my ELO on a public forum!

 

Arthur brown messaged me last night with a conversation entitled COER. I thought that this was a "private conversation" between invited interested parties but it seems Arthur and I were the only ones in the conversation! I spend some considerable time typing up a factual post regarding my application but it seems it has only been seen by Arthur! Could I ask Arthur to invite other interested parties to see my post?? as I didn't write all that for just his personal interest!

 

I wasn't expecting anything in a government organisation to happen quickly but 4 months with not a word is rather a long time is seems.

 

 

Rod

[rocketpro]

Rod, as it is a `new subject` you or Arthur have to invite others if you want to share the post.

 

You can do that in the left hand column.

 

 

P.S. Had it been posted under the current  `proposal for UKPS competency` all participants there would have seen it.

Edited by rocketpro, 14 January 2015 - 09:56 AM.

[wayne]

Hi All,

 

Let not get our knickers in a twist.  As I've said from the beginning, its going to take a while for all the ELO's nationally to get up to speed with the new regulations and also our kind of A&K application.  Be patient and I'm sure things will start moving.  I was told around 2 years ago that a training document for ELO's with regards to our application was to be drafted.  I'm still not sure that this has been released.

 

I'm still waiting feedback from my previous request regarding competency from my ELO contacts (one of them was drafting the training document) so I will give them another nudge this week and also mention the problems with applications with GMP.

 

Cheers,

 

Wayne.