20 replies to this topic

[bartd]

Dear all,

 

Apologies for this random message from a newcomer, I've signed up to this forum mainly to ask a question.

 

I am not involved with pyrotechnics, although I have done my fair share of that in the past as a kiddie chemist. Back then, I used to just call it "blowing stuff up" and this had no small part to play in my being a chemist now, the chemistry sort, not a pharmacist. But I digress.

 

I do a bit of electronics and materials processing (glass and metals) in a workshop at home and need conc nitric acid, hydrogen peroxide and oxalic acid. I am aware of the recent legislation and I am in possession of the required EPP Home Office licence for those substances.

 

The question is, does anyone know of any companies that will supply these to a member of the public, as opposed to only to registered businesses? Presumably they would have a system in place where the delivery driver checks the licence on delivery. The big ones (e.g. Sigma, Fisher, TCI, Alfa, to name just a few) won't deal with private customers, and I'd rather avoid "borrowing" stuff from work. It seems getting the licence was the easy part!

 

I thought I'd ask in these fora as nitric acid and hydrogen peroxide are obviously explosives precursors. My licence is for 70% nitric acid (up to 1 L), 30% hydrogen peroxide (up to 1 L), and 100% oxalic acid (up to 100 g) and these are the amounts I'm after. Any help would be appreciated.

 

Many thanks,

Bart

[cooperman435]

Hi Bartd, I couldn't speak for individual companies and if any of them have a delivery system in place to comply with the EPP requirements but I did do some work to try and establish getting one of the courier companies to offer the service through them and came up badly lacking as they were suggesting huge premiums for the service.

It's also a little complicated as we spoke to the home office and they pointed out that the seller would require your EPP licence and your photographic ID to sell the goods but then you would need them both to show the courier on delivery as they would be at that point classed as the suplier at the point of handing it over at your door so require photo ID.

The ideal situation is a company that delivers personally but I'm sorry I cannot suggest one from personal knowledge

[Arthur Brown]

The big issue is that to supply to an EPP certificated individual the vendor has to be and EPP certificated supplier. When you normally send out IBCs of various chems to businesses why would the big companies jump the hoops to become an EPP certificated vendor for the odd 100ml - 1litre. Also the ADR transport of chems is viable in tonne quantities but in 100g bottles expect a £50 surcharge.

 

Ebay may still be your best bet 

 

For a smaller vendor the test of "business" may be more flexible but will include business paperwork and the ability to receive packages between 0700 and 1630 -typical goods inwards times

[samboradford]

HI Bart,

 

APC Pure should help you with that one.  You will need to email them direct and explain your usage, fill out a declaration of usage and send them copies of your EPP. 

 

Sam.

[bartd]

Hi all,

 

Many thanks for your replies. I'll see what APC Pure say.

 

As for eBay, that seems a bit dodgy doesn't it? I've actually seen 70% nitric acid on eBay earlier, 1L from Italy. I wonder how they ship it. If it's in a regular parcel (and subject to all the abuse that normal parcels endure), what would happen if it leaks? If all goes well then no one will be any wiser, but if it leaks, or if they ship it with a declaration of what it is, that could come back to me and might cost me the licence (and more).

 

Anyway, I'll contact APC and maybe some others and report back.

 

Cheers,

Bart

[Vic]

I can not think why our Vice Chairman would suggest “Ebay may still be your best bet”

[bartd]

By the way, I just re-read my initial post and I hope I didn't come across as condescending in any way! What I meant to say is that I've done my share of "blowing sh*t up" as a kid, but since then other interests/hobbies (and work/life) have taken over. I imagine that if some kids did now what I was doing back then, they'd pretty quickly end up being locked up as terrorists! While I still occasionally long back to those days, the thought of jail or all the red tape involved in doing it legally are a bit off-putting!

 

Bart

[Vic]

I did not find it in the least condescending

[cooperman435]

That's not what gonks was suggesting at all Kenneth, it was in resonse to suggesting other routes to obtain listed chemicals from a source that isn't bothered by the PPL restrictions, he wasn't suggesting any specific company was doing something wrong by association with EBay

[cooperman435]

I'm neither a fan not a critic of our new chair Kenneth. I'm on the fence and more than happy to wait and see how things progress as everyone deserves an opportunity to show their ability.

I'm simply commenting that AB put up a post suggesting wrongly that suppliers needed to register to be PPL compliant which they don't and that in the same post he suggested Ebay could be a way round the regulations that the home office have requested a suplier to adhere to when delivering by post. Gonks is simply pointing out that the society does not condone the circumnavigation of the new regs in this way. I'm sure he will agree there are numerous legitimate suppliers on eBay too and he certainly didn't name any suppliers nor suggest anyone was "too good for the UKPS"

Edited by cooperman435, 10 March 2016 - 08:42 PM.

[bartd]

Hi all,

 

So I've been in touch with APC Pure as suggested earlier in this thread. They have been most helpful and responsive to enquiries. The initial EPP licence check (via a scanned copy of the licence) went quickly and smoothly. I had to complete another couple of forms (one REACH related, and a declaration of competence) for some other substances I requested. These went to and have been approved by their compliance officer and/or director and I have now paid for the order. As the next step I will be arranging when exactly to ship the lot (seeing how I will have to take a day off work to wait for the courier). So everything seems to be going swimmingly and APC are to be recommended for taking the time to deal with private customers!

 

Thanks for all your help!

 

Bart

[cooperman435]

Is it ok to ask what shipping conditions they make of you please? Ie do they deliver themselves and what have they asked you to have ready when the delivery is made?

[samboradford]

The delivery is made by their dedicated ( own ) couriers.  Phil, you are referring to the photographic ID checks - this is required at the point of order I believe but I think implied at the point of receipt if I remember correctly.  This is the only legitimate Company taking orders for substances such as Nitric Acid and hydrogen peroxide, they have a good due diligence process and they are to be commended in my opinion - you can PM me for specifics.

Edited by samboradford, 18 March 2016 - 07:01 PM.

[bartd]

Is it ok to ask what shipping conditions they make of you please? Ie do they deliver themselves and what have they asked you to have ready when the delivery is made?

 

Hi cooperman435,

 

We're not quite at that stage yet: my order has been approved and they're checking stock now. I imagine I will get more information when that is done. I have asked though how I would get my logbook signed and whether it would be by the delivery driver and the person I was in contact with didn't know but didn't seem to think it would be the driver. They said they would check with their compliance team and get back to me.

 

As for delivery, I think I only paid about £6, which seems suspicious (but good of course). My total order was for about 130 quid though so maybe delivery gets cheaper if you order over some minimum value. Their website says they use APC Overnight. Don't know whether the two companies are connected or whether the common APC part is just a coincidence. Looking at both websites, the design and font for both logos look somewhat similar so I guess they could be connected...

 

Bart

Edited by bartd, 19 March 2016 - 11:28 AM.

[cooperman435]

Ok that sounds promising, I'm praying that a courier has sorted the requirements with a suplier as when I made first contact with a few it was reported to be possible but very costly!

One detail though are you sending your licence and photo ID to the suplier?