11 replies to this topic

[dr thrust]

Just interested to know how many people where successful with their acquire and keep, or acquire only Bp licenses , with a view to legally manufacture up to 100g of a pyrotechnic composition .
Did it work out for the majority? I’m only asking as I’m perplexed that the society and forum didn’t take off with a wave of published experimentation , now that a legal framework was set up .. what went wrong ?

[David]

It's a good question. For me, I kind of fell out of love with pyro for a long time, just pick up interest again in the hobby during lockdown. I never really did anything other than buy Cat 3 anyway. 

[BlackCat]

I didn't have any major problems with my first application for an A&K for black powder and an AO for UN MAN2 beyond the time it took to get my application granted, which was about a year. The reason for the delay was that my local Police hadn't issued one before and, frankly, weren't too sure of what they were doing. As it was my first application, I couldn't help much either so it dragged on a bit.

 

I've just renewed both and it was very plain sailing with no problems a all. The ELO was very helpful and in his words was "quite fascinated with what I was doing". He also said that I remain the only person in Northants with these licences but, it all seems fairly straightforward now.

 

The legal framework in terms of A&K and AO licences has been in place for a very long time, certainly before the revision of the Explosives Legislation in 2014. So, there was no real change as far as licensing under the "100g rule" was concerned. The only real change around then was the introduction of the EPPP for certain raw materials and again this prompted a lot of discussion in the forum. A number of people were quite angry about the system and I'm sure some of them gave up rather than go through the application process.

 

As to what happened, I don't remember too many people making applications as most of the people belonging to the Society already had them. there were a few that had trouble, which was mainly down to their local ELO's exceeding their authority with respect to qualifications. I remember quite a lot of discussion along these lines so I'm sure that you can find he threads somewhere in the Forum.

 

Up until recent times, there has always been a steady posting of formulas but there wasn't a burst of activity at the time because, in effect, nothing had changed except the introduction of the UN MAN2 designation, which actually made the application process for A&K and AO licenses simpler, in my opinion. 

 

Unfortunately, this was also the time when there was a change of committee and quite a few people objected to some of the things that the new committee wanted to do. The resulting in-fighting led to the piteous state that the Society is in today.

[David]

 

 

Unfortunately, this was also the time when there was a change of committee and quite a few people objected to some of the things that the new committee wanted to do. The resulting in-fighting led to the piteous state that the Society is in today.

ah. This is sadly the nature of execs/committees etc, I found that at Uni. Same with forums - I mean of course the whole point of a forum is discussion, but then when it gets too contrary it can be counter productive. 

I think three examples of getting it right- One is facebook. I'm not a fan of facebook, but as far as promotion goes it is a great way for businesses to say nice things about their products, to advertise to people who choose to "like" their page. Anyone who disagrees, don't reply or follow them. And hate to say it, but Onlyfans too does seem to work- people provide something to people who want to pay for it.  I doubt we will ever see pyroporn, but hey ho!!

And I think Galactic got it right with their forum, while it lasted- and it lasted a long time. They set clear rules, it's their forum, a place to have banter and say nice positive things about Galactic's products, and only Galactic's products. 


 

[BlackCat]

Yes indeed David, sad but true.

 

To be honest, I don't know if the Society ever had a facebook page, I don't do it either but my wife uses it quite a lot. There was certainly an excellent video made of he display after the last AGM, 4 or 5 years ago but that might have been uploaded to the Optimum Fireworks website rather than FB.

 

Sadly, I don't see a way ack for the Society as all of the regular contributors seem to have found new homes on other forums so, why would they come back here?

[David]

I think the Society had a facebook page, and still does. I mean as a more general point, I think Facebook itself works - it is without question a successful website- because it allows people, businesses etc to express opinions with any disagreement. It works well for shops as they can show their latest ranges, up to date opening times because it's so very dynamic and up to date. Facebook groups are quite similar to forums too, in that they allow like mined people to chat. And people tend to already have Facebook, so no need to join a new forum. 

But yeah, I think your last point rings true- nothing wrong with the society as such, just people found other places that suit their needs. Another example is You Tube- there are some excellent fan pages on you tube, people do their own firings etc. 

The UKFR still remains an excellent and popular site, I think because of the depth of things he offers- a sponsor section, several well run forums on different themes (nostalgia etc) and a showcase. 

Just to be clear, I'm not trying to do a head to head comparison with UKFR/ Pyro society - I know they were always different sites but that is why at one point it worked so well.


In honesty I'm a bit of a dinosaur, I don't sell fireworks or fire professional (and never did) and don't buy/build any more. But I still exist , ah ha!

[BlackCat]

I agree with you, FB does provide a service for a lot of people and small businesses, it just isn't for me.

 

I think that the reason people found other forums is simply that they got fed up with all of the bickering and bad-mouthing of committee members in particular and very little being posted about pyro. The problem is, of course, that once that happens, what is there to tempt them back here?

 

It's a great shame.

[David]

Good post. Happily, I missed all this on here as I was inactive. My memories of this site, circa 2004ish-2011 were that discussion was often heated but good natured. 

But yeah, I totally see your point, and fully agree. One think , on reflection, that Nigel got right with his Galactic forum was keeping it strictly positive. No bitching! Galactic funded it, their site their rules. 

What you say does ring true though, on many forums (not just pyro) - people put the effort in and it's hard to maintain the energy in the face of criticism. 

That said, there is always scope for positive and critical feedback- if done in the right way. The major flaw with you tube is that it's never clear what is a genuine personal project, what is a straight up advert, and the massive grey area in between. If someone (say) fires a big rocket and says "let me know what you think in the comment!" Do they really want to know what you think- good, bad or ugly? Or is the video and advert for the company and so they will edit out any negativity? Hard to know, which kind of kills the appeal of responding. 

Why bring this up? Well, I think the big advantage of a society is that it can present an honest position- pro-fireworks for sure, but in a genuine way. As you say, if only we can tempt people back...
 

[David]

As another general point, I think with any community, and forum etc, there is always going to be a difference between Commercial and non-Commercial people. For sure, the relationship can be positive, and of course friendly and upbeat but none the less I think that is always going to be something to consider. To be specific, if someone is doing something as a hobby they are naturally going to be willing to spend their own money, to experiment and to naturally give their time for free. But with anything commercial, the bottom line will of course BE the bottom line- is it profitable? 

To give a specific non-fireworks example, when I did aerial arts there were the (very good) hobbyists , whose goal was to do what they did as well as they can, at their own expense. The people who make their living from it were (naturally and understandably) concerned with new students at their studios, more bookings for their work etc. Neither is "right" or "wrong" but the approach will be different. 

For sure- Professionals can be keen enthusiasts too- and often are. And there is quite a lot of middle ground. 

Edited by David, 30 October 2021 - 10:20 PM.

[BlackCat]

You're quite right on the different priorities for commercial and non-commercial members of any forum and, it's probably for that reason that, the number of commercial members was limited on this forum. I may be wrong but I seem ti remember a figure of 30% maximum for commercial members. It's been a long time so don't quote me on that figure.

 

Again, doing the best you can is only possible for non-commercial pyrotechnicians because we don't have to be too bothered about the cost of the raw materials we put into a composition or the time it takes to build a device. Both of these factors are crucial to commercial firework manufacture. 

 

We also don't have to worry too much about the stability of our compositions either because we can't store them for any length of time under the lawn relating to AO licences. In the commercial world, storage for a year or more isn't uncommon and, again, meeting this requirement can influence to choice of one raw material over another.

 

Finally, to meet the required British Standards for commercial fireworks is also a possible constraint on both cost and performance.

[David]

Great post, and a perfect summary. No need for any conflict between "pros and ams" it's just there are fundamental differences. Of course the two are not mutually exclusive. A person can be both a professional and hobbyist, and without any conflict of interests; such as a School Teacher who also teacher Sunday School. But they are different spheres, with different concerns. 

Edited by David, 31 October 2021 - 03:29 PM.

[BlackCat]

Thanks for your comments on my post.