13 replies to this topic

[bmiller14]

Hey this is the web site from my local news paper it's got some good info on rocketry and how our stupid gov is ruining many people pastimes. oregonian.com

[RegimentalPyro]

One of the major points of this article was that US citizens have sacrificed freedoms for an increase in security. Given that most US citizens are now more fearful of attack than before, I'd say it was a poor trade.

Hmmm - This might be inflammatory but I'm firmly of the opinion that under a democracy, people tend to get the kind of Government that they deserve!

[Yugen-biki]

Every one does not like their goverment in a democracy, but most of them do.

[bmiller14]

Actually no offense intended yugen right now bush has fallen very far out of favor with many people. There is no end to the war in sight and even if we do leave when we say we will. Our troops will still be there, we have the ultimate decision about how the reconstruction money gets spent, and we have control over there oil (which was the whole purpose of this war in the first place IMHO). Because of all this a lot of people actually do not like him or what he is doing. I belive he is insane and he needs to be thrown out of office as soon as possible. Jon Kerry may not be the best choice but he is far better than what we have now. IMHO




Edit
O yeah and how could I forget the prisoner abuse thing. That is disgusting any one who does those sort of thing does not deserve to live the need a swift execution to rid the world of sadistic evil people like them.

The part about execution is my opinion I understand some people do not belive in the death penelty for what ever reason and I respect that. But the part about evil is not. Only an evil person could do things like that.

Edited by bmiller14, 27 May 2004 - 05:45 PM.

[BigG]

First - this is a uk explosive law & legislation - not a USA one. Second, we are not a political forum. Everyone got an opinion about war, piece and life on earth - this is what the general discussion forums are about.

The first post in this thread is relevent - the rest - not. Please keep to Pyro grounds.

[bmiller14]

sorry for getting of the topic

[RegimentalPyro]

The first post in this thread is relevent - the rest - not. Please keep to Pyro grounds.

Fair point - My bad - Just one of those hobby horses I get on occassionally.

On a brighter note the article did state that those who "roll their own" motors are kinda - exempt from a lot of the red tape and security restrictions.

[BigG]

Correct. USA laws are based largely on the foundations that were designed in the UK. However ? there is one major difference. In the USA, ?manufacturing? is conceived as the ?act of making for the purpose of selling/profit?. As such, any amateur that builds a device for it?s own use, escape allot of the regulation. In many cases, it?s a matter of getting the fire marshal approval for the shoot ? and in places with vast lands of emptiness such as Nevada, Arizona and even Oregon; it?s usually a phone call away.

In the UK, manufacture is conceived as the ?act of making?. As such, even amateurs do not escape regulation.

[miniskinny]

So really, you don't need a manufacturing license in the US if you don't make es (besiding a small amount of BP for "small munitions")?

[BigG]

So really, you don't need a manufacturing license in the US if you don't make        es (besiding a small amount of BP for "small munitions")?

It really depands of the state you are in. In some states - as long as your storage complies with BAFT regulations (and it must - even if you don't intend to register it) - then yes - you don't need manufacturing license. At least this is my understanding from the many publications and discussions I had with USA club members and hobbyists.

If you want - I can advise on a few people you can talk with regarding this issue. I think Burlhorse knows much more - my area of knowledge is mainly the UK law - not the USA one (that's why we are the British pyrotechnic society )

[Douchermann]

So what exactly do the laws say for keeping chemicals, just not using them. Like I have a room full, with 3 defined shelves: Oxidisers, fuels, binders. What would make that a satisfactory place for storing chems?

[BigG]

UK law or USA law?

If we are talking small quantities, I don't think there is a law that stops you from storing them in the same room. Many gardeners will have fuel and oxidizers stored next to each other (for example potassium nitrate and fuel for the lawnmower), and nothing really limits them from doing so. However, if we are talking tons - then some laws will come into effect.

When it comes to pyrotechnic - in your approved site (and if your site is not licensed or approved I don't want to know about it) you do need to have considerations as for what is safe for you and/or your workers. Storing oxidizers and fuels next to each other (especially if they come in sacks) - can present hazard both of contamination and in case of fire - of explosion.

In commercial operations there will be some level of separation between energetic materials - so chlorates or for example charcoal (yes, charcoal) - will be stored in totally separate building. There is a booklet (more like a book really) by the HSE that explain safety in Chemical operations. I think we will try to make it downloadable in the future (after we finish registering).

[LadyKate]

UK law or USA law?

If we are talking small quantities, I don't think there is a law that stops you from storing them in the same room. Many gardeners will have fuel and oxidizers stored next to each other (for example potassium nitrate and fuel for the lawnmower), and nothing really limits them from doing so. However, if we are talking tons - then some laws will come into effect.

BATF regulations in the states are a good guideline for storage and they cover quantities from 0 to thousands of pounds. As was said, the regs are for commercial storage and amateurs with small quantities of material will probably not have to worry about it. However, that might be a misleading comment in some states - there are some strange rules out there so check up.

There will be local laws that over-ride the BATF law (more strict) but the BATF reg will keep you out of trouble. A summary of the BATF law is in the back of Tom Perigrin's Book but, essentially all fireworks chemicals (not just BP) should be stored 25 feet (more if more than 100 pounds) away from inhabited buildings. Assembly areas must be separate from storage and inhabited areas. The storage (Type 4) container rules are strict and meant for licensing and include drainage, locking, and materials specifications. Flash powders and bulk salutes fall under different and more strict guidelines.

It would be possible to build a small Type 4 storage container to specification for BP and chemicals without too much expense. Indeed, you could probably purchase a yard shed and convert it. I recommend getting a copy of the BATF reg and looking it over. ATF - Explosives Law and Regulations, ATF P 5400.7(6/90). Specifically, look at S 55.210 which is the Type 4 storage requirements.

Your common sense approach for amateur pyros seems appealing to me since I store small quantities of basic chemicals in my workroom.

[BigG]

BATF regulations in the states are a good guideline for storage and they cover quantities from 0 to thousands of pounds. As was said, the regs are for commercial storage and amateurs with small quantities of material will probably not have to worry about it. However, that might be a misleading comment in some states - there are some strange rules out there so check up.

There will be local laws that over-ride the BATF law (more strict) but the BATF reg will keep you out of trouble. A summary of the BATF law is in the back of Tom Perigrin's Book but, essentially all fireworks chemicals (not just BP) should be stored 25 feet (more if more than 100 pounds)  away from inhabited buildings. Assembly areas must be separate from storage and inhabited areas. The storage (Type 4) container rules are strict and meant for licensing and include drainage, locking, and materials specifications. Flash powders and bulk salutes fall under different and more strict guidelines. 

It would be possible to build a small Type 4 storage container to specification for BP and chemicals without too much expense. Indeed, you could probably purchase a yard shed and convert it.  I recommend getting a copy of the BATF reg and looking it over.  ATF - Explosives Law and Regulations, ATF P 5400.7(6/90). Specifically, look at S 55.210 which is the Type 4 storage requirements.

Your common sense approach for amateur pyros seems appealing to me since I store small quantities of basic chemicals in my workroom.

I would like to stress - Lady Kate post is specific to the USA. UK is different.