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#736 Mumbles

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Posted 23 March 2010 - 08:59 PM

In addition to what has already been mentioned on this topic, I would like to see added safe guards when screening on a large manufacturing scale.

If possible,..... personally I would like to see some form of R&D along the lines of curtaining around the trays to help reduce atmospheric dispersal of comps into the surrounding air, along with a curtained/funnel hopper device to dispense comps into trays, as well as a remote control sifting trays ( a bit like a concrete vibrating table when you make paving slabs done via camshaft set up), all this could be done in a remote setting to help reduce human contact/fatalities.



A company in the US actually investigated the automated sifting machines. They had a guy at their plant who was the sole mixer of flash, and it was done in some somewhat isolated building. He happily did his job for quite a while I had heard. They invested in a machine to do it for him. I don't think it was entirely remote though. I believe the operator still had to be near by, to put the powder back on top of the screen, or to rub through any clumps or anything like that. He imediately quit, saying he wasn't comfortable. Within 2 weeks, the machine had blown up, and he was back in his brand new building happily hand screening flash. I don't think the new operator was injured. If you've ever seen a motorized sifter, such as for grading metal powders, you'll see how violent they really are.

Honestly, up until last summer it scared me to death, the thought of screening flash. I went to a friend's house to build some bigger shells, with bottom shots. I figured he just diapered it, like I assumed everyone did. 800g a bottom shot really eats up flash powder, in addition to the lampares were were making. We calculated it out, and figured we needed around 18.5lbs of flash. He had me start weighing out dark Al, and perc in 2.5lb batch increments, and broke out a screen. I ASSumed that he was just going to screen the perc onto the paper and diaper, because it was a bit clumpy. He showed me how to do it, and handed me the screen. The first batch was one of the scariest experiences of my life.

I now practice kind of a hybrid method. I screen the materials through a screen onto a paper, and diaper a bit to get them good and mixed. I then SIFT the flash together onto a new sheet of paper. You will be very surprised to see how much unmixed perc and blackhead Al remains. I diaper again, and give it a final sift, and it is pretty much homogeneous. He had be screen it 4 times with no diapering. You just have to be careful. Normally I make it first thing in the morning outdoors or in the afternoon after it rains (high humidity), and make as much as I'll need for one day of building. All cotton clothing, and copious amount of anti-static spray on everything. I don't bother with gloves or glasses, but I do use a half face respirator. With the amount of flash I mix, a face shield isn't going to do anything.

Honestly, one of the biggest dangers of mixing flash is spilling it on the ground or table, and stepping on it or grinding it accidentally. I always work in the grass on a wooden table, and clean up between every batch. A paint brush is used to brush off the table. There is an unsettling amount of flash there on occasion.

#737 Potassium chlorate

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Posted 23 March 2010 - 10:03 PM

What are bottom shots? Ignorant Swede wants to know. Posted Image
"This salt, formerly called hyperoxymuriate of potassa, is
used for sundry preparations, and especially for experimental
fire-works."

Dr. James Cutbush

#738 Creepin_pyro

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Posted 24 March 2010 - 10:29 AM

What are bottom shots? Ignorant Swede wants to know. Posted Image


Bottom shots are where the last break on a multi-break is replaced with a salute of the same diameter, often containing a titanic amount of flash.

Always interesting when the timing isn't quite right and they go off about 12' in the air...

#739 Potassium chlorate

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Posted 24 March 2010 - 04:50 PM

800 grams is some bang. Posted Image
"This salt, formerly called hyperoxymuriate of potassa, is
used for sundry preparations, and especially for experimental
fire-works."

Dr. James Cutbush

#740 Atom Fireworks

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Posted 24 March 2010 - 10:23 PM

Flash is a funny subject because what some think is good flash is not as good as what ide call real flash, i am lucky enough to know my supplier of chems and have become good freinds with him, he told me to be extremely carefull when using flash and only make small amounts.

I have only ever once made a batch bigger than 5 grams and it was 20 grams, i made it as a ground salute in a 2 inch shell case, set it off on my local waste ground and it shuck mine and a freinds bones that bad we quickly scarperd from the area as it was rediculously loud.

I only diapered this mix for a very short time and boy was it powerfull hence i dont even use it anymore. This was made with the real highest standards of chems and real ekhart dark ali which some suppliers claim they sell but they dont its not the real deal unlike the stuff i used and it made a huge difference to any other metals used to make flash.

As for 800g, if i made that quantity of the flash i use then i would deserve to be behind bars, its not something to have in them quantities, i reckon 800g would easily paint somebody over he walls of the room it went of in, but the more mix you have the more danger of shock and friction will set it off, and really you shouldnt need 800g, maybe 80g and that will be still mega powerfull.

Just my 2p worth

#741 crystal palace fireworks

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Posted 24 March 2010 - 11:37 PM

A company in the US actually investigated the automated sifting machines. They had a guy at their plant who was the sole mixer of flash, and it was done in some somewhat isolated building. He happily did his job for quite a while I had heard. They invested in a machine to do it for him. I don't think it was entirely remote though. I believe the operator still had to be near by, to put the powder back on top of the screen, or to rub through any clumps or anything like that. He imediately quit, saying he wasn't comfortable. Within 2 weeks, the machine had blown up, and he was back in his brand new building happily hand screening flash. I don't think the new operator was injured. If you've ever seen a motorized sifter, such as for grading metal powders, you'll see how violent they really are.

Honestly, up until last summer it scared me to death, the thought of screening flash. I went to a friend's house to build some bigger shells, with bottom shots. I figured he just diapered it, like I assumed everyone did. 800g a bottom shot really eats up flash powder, in addition to the lampares were were making. We calculated it out, and figured we needed around 18.5lbs of flash. He had me start weighing out dark Al, and perc in 2.5lb batch increments, and broke out a screen. I ASSumed that he was just going to screen the perc onto the paper and diaper, because it was a bit clumpy. He showed me how to do it, and handed me the screen. The first batch was one of the scariest experiences of my life.

I now practice kind of a hybrid method. I screen the materials through a screen onto a paper, and diaper a bit to get them good and mixed. I then SIFT the flash together onto a new sheet of paper. You will be very surprised to see how much unmixed perc and blackhead Al remains. I diaper again, and give it a final sift, and it is pretty much homogeneous. He had be screen it 4 times with no diapering. You just have to be careful. Normally I make it first thing in the morning outdoors or in the afternoon after it rains (high humidity), and make as much as I'll need for one day of building. All cotton clothing, and copious amount of anti-static spray on everything. I don't bother with gloves or glasses, but I do use a half face respirator. With the amount of flash I mix, a face shield isn't going to do anything.

Honestly, one of the biggest dangers of mixing flash is spilling it on the ground or table, and stepping on it or grinding it accidentally. I always work in the grass on a wooden table, and clean up between every batch. A paint brush is used to brush off the table. There is an unsettling amount of flash there on occasion.


Hi Mumbles,

Thanks for the interesting comment on your experiences.

Yes I can imagine the ferocity of the sifting machines you mention, but I don`t see why they can`t be re-configured for gentler oscillation along with perhaps a number of screens on top of one another?

Inspired by Phil D`s idea/process of a rubberized mixer, in theory, is it not possible to create a machine to diaper and dispense into containers in one process? I would also be thinking about adding a internal misting/humidity system.

Do you have any details on the company that supplied and adapted the sifting machines for pyro use?

#742 Mumbles

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Posted 25 March 2010 - 06:20 AM

I'll ask around about more details. It likely wasn't designed for what they were using it for. I have no doubt that a suitably designed machine could be made for pyro. There are enough moving parts that you may need a redesign to prevent places from dangerously rubbing.

#743 CCH Concepts

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Posted 27 March 2010 - 11:15 AM

just as a thought. how about a straight diapering machine.

say to moving frames, one goes up as the other goes down, with a sheet of a chosen material slung between it and some curtained sides.

powder is placed on the material, as one side goes up the other goes down and it rolls the powder back and forth.

#744 Deano 1

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Posted 28 March 2010 - 12:00 AM

Tell me to shut up and clear off if you like, but!!! In my opinion and it is my opinion only. The chems we use are the ultimate source of the planet earth. Anybody out there that’s put on their Anorak and studied a little of the universe and space like me (yes I could qualify for an anorakPosted Image ), would know there are colours and effects we dream about out there, and also, planets exploding! The natural way! With chemicals like we use.

Anyway back to flash. 800 grams is nothing, but in another sense its suicide. Its large amounts of similar chemicals that destroy planets and stars in the big black space around us. So what’s the rush in making loads of flash that could maim and destroy the maker. “Small and store” comes to mind, Posted Image
This reply was sponsored by "Bells Blended Scotch Whisky Posted Image "


Our saviours : In the ninth century, a team of Chinese alchemists trying to synthesize an "elixir of immortality" from saltpeter, sulfur, realgar, and dried honey instead invented gunpowder.

#745 pyrotechnist

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Posted 28 March 2010 - 10:10 AM

I got another idea though I aint sure how sensitive these are as of yet but why dont we look into alternative flash comps? like copper borate and mg flash, calcium sulphate and mg flash, iron sulphate and mg flash, copper sulphate and mg flash etc. These comps seems pretty dam powerful in small amounts.
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#746 CCH Concepts

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Posted 28 March 2010 - 01:56 PM

im quiet interested in the alternatives from a theory point of view, but there is alot to be said for tried and tested. i did read something about negitive explosives.

take a look

negitive explosive

#747 MDH

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Posted 28 March 2010 - 06:25 PM

I'm more interested in sending a mole to Malta and gathering their colored flash secrets.

#748 seymour

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Posted 29 March 2010 - 01:50 PM

I'm more interested in sending a mole to Malta and gathering their colored flash secrets.


From all the hints that I've gathered on the internet, it's nothing more than dangerously fine Mg, a colourant and a chlorine donor with whatever else needed to get it to burn (oxidiser if the colourant is not already one, for example). I've never seen any of the actual formulas, but I doubt there is anything exotic in them, unless you count very fine atomised Mg as exotic.

I'm sure you could come up with your own formulas without too much experimentation.
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#749 Karl Mitchell-Shead

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Posted 29 March 2010 - 04:36 PM

I have successfully made green and red flash with ease actually, was far simpler than i expected using simple Barium Nitrate and Strontium Nitrate (as oxidiser), Al and S.

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#750 MDH

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Posted 29 March 2010 - 06:54 PM

No chlorine donor?




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