823 replies to this topic

[Dan]

cool thx for the info BigG. it makes a little more sense now.
BTW do u know how much more powerful flash is vs. bp.
thx BigG
Dan

[Rhodri]

I'd like to augment BigG's detailed reply with the fact the sulphur component acts as a sensitiser in BP products.

The S ignites at a much lower temperature than the KN03 and allows the nitrate to fuse with the C and release O2.

Powders made without the use of S will burn but are less easily ignited than those containing S (energetic powdered metals are an exception here).

This above is particularly true for mixtures that contain C.

When one takes the time time to explore the chemistry of pyro. one finds that an entirely new world is discovered.

Get some BP working first before attempting that 'flash' - you'll find it far more rewarding and will be furnished with a better understanding of the art.

[miniskinny]

BTW do u know how much more powerful flash is vs. bp.

I think the critical mass of Black Powder is just around 500 pounds, meaning it will explode uncontained in a pile weighing 500 pounds, and some flash mixtures can have a critical mass of 0.5 grams! Needless to say, flash is much more powerful, and should not be played around with. Make flash powder only if it's really necessary, unless of course you really are an expert, such as some of the forum moderaters we have here.

[Patrick]

I put coarse Al (Al from a lathe and cut into smaller pieces) into my ball mill. After 2-3 hours it looks like this

http://deutsch.250x.com/aluflitter.jpg [copy and paste]

Its everything from very fine to big flitters. After sieving it yo can use the flitter that are too coarse for other things like thermite reactions etc.

Here is some aluminum foil that I placed in a blender for about 30 minutes. I added enough water to cover all the aluminum and after it was fined, I dumped the mixture into another plastic container. Make sure you get all the aluminum out of the blender. Let the fines settle for a day or so and poured off the water. THe end result was a powder that was finer then table salt.



This is compared to regular table pepper.



I haven't ball milled it, I was just curious as to how it would turn out if it was blended.

[italteen3]

I dont know if that aluminum is fine enough for flash. Flash calls for a fine aluminum to be used. Not an expert but I dont think you should be able to see each particle and usually when on paper it leaves the paper blackened. That may only be good for some nice sparks. I would just test some very small quantities with proper safety precautions of course. I could be wrong so dont quote me .

Goodluck!

[Stuart]

That will not work for flash. The Aluminium needs to be ridiculously fine to work.

http://amateurpyro.c...stup&cat=&pos=3

That's some of my Aluminium. It is flour fine but still, German Dark Aluminium laughs in its face at how unfine it is. That Aluminium is about 250-300 mesh but you want more in the 500+ area. Pyromaster has a picture of flash Aluminium on his site on his Flash powder page.

[alany]

That blender stuff should be suitable for falls and maybe wave stars but you'd need to ball mill it for a few days with suitable media before it would be usable in glitter and even longer before it would be usable in flash.

Has anyone tried tetrahedronal aluminia "deburing" media for milling Aluminium and Magnesium?

I am milling magnesium turnings right now using chrome steel balls, but after two days all I have are sharp needles of magnesium (which crackle nicely in a little pile of BP - kinda cool as-is).

[Patrick]

I knew it wouldn't work as flash, as it would need to be around 400-600 mesh or finer.

Would the aluminium foil ground up be considered a flitter as used in compositions.

I guess I don't know the differnece between flitters/flake or atomized.


Stuart, What did your aluminum start as?

[Stuart]

I bought my Aluminium, from a fibreglass supplier

[Patrick]

This happened this weekend in Fargo, ND, which is about 45 miles north of me.

The wreckage of a pickup truck rests next to a 2-foot wide, 18-inch deep crater created by Friday's explosion at the Red River Valley Fairgrounds. "They were caught in the middle of a fireball," said Jimmy Beardmore, Pyrotechnics Guild International safety team member, of the three men who were injured in the explosion.



Sheriff's department rules on fireworks blast cause, identifies injured

A combination of spilled flash powder, a gravel surface and an errant step may have cause the explosion Friday that injured three people at the Pyrotechnics Guild International convention at the Red River Valley Fairgrounds in West Fargo.

That's the conclusion of an investigation, released today, by the guild and the Cass County Sheriff's Department into the blast. The injured were identified as Mike Barnes, 45, and Allen Poole, 36, both Toledo, Ohio, and Kelly Malone, 34, Cortland, Ill., sheriff's deputy Tom Hall said.

The three men were taken to Innovis Hospital in Fargo, where Barnes and Malone remained today, a hospital spokeswoman said. The hospital was not authorized to release condition information.

No information was available for Poole.

The three men were apparently putting together a large salute, a device that produces a flash and loud noise, when powder spilled on the ground was ignited, possibly by the friction of a shoe scraping on gravel, said Hall, the commander of the Cass County Regional b**b Squad.

The blast lifted a nearby pickup off the ground and moved it eight to 12 inches, he said.

The explosive device was much larger than those used in a normal fireworks display and the men were on a firing range when most other guild members were attending a banquet, Hall said.

He said the men violated guild rules by assembling a device on site and at a time when the firing range was closed.

Prior to Friday's explosion, the guild had not recorded a serious injury at one of its events in 35 years.

[Yugen-biki]

"The three men were apparently putting together a large salute..."

Large? Huge is a better word! How stupid!




By the way my bright flake AL is ~25?m (over 400 mesh) and my german dark is <45 ?m (44?m?325 mesh). The geman black is as good or better then the bright flake.

[BigG]

Unfortunately, from the information I have from PGI members, we are talking large ? not huge. Flash is just extremely dangerous ? and really, there is not need for more then a gram max for most devices. As I said before ? I leave this to common sense, but flash should be only used by EXPERIENCED pyro ? the kind that have few good years of active firework experience behind them.

[Patrick]

Tues. Update regarding the Fargo Blast


Spilled flash powder, gravel and an errant step may have caused the explosion that injured three people Friday at the Pyrotechnics Guild International convention at the Red River Valley Fairgrounds.

That's the conclusion of an investigation by the guild and the Cass County Sheriff's Department into the blast.

Mike Barnes, 45, and Allen Poole, 36, both Toledo, Ohio, and Kelly Malone, 34, Cortland, Ill., were injured in the explosion, sheriff's deputy Tom Hall said Monday.

The three men were taken to Fargo's Innovis Hospital, where Barnes and Malone remained Monday, said Jodi Baumgartner, a hospital spokeswoman.

The hospital wasn't authorized to release condition information for Barnes and Malone, and no information was available for Poole, she said.

The three men may have been assembling a large salute, which produces a flash and loud noise, when spilled powder on the ground was ignited, possibly by the friction created by a shoe scraping on gravel, said Hall, commander of the Cass County Regional b**b Squad.

The blast lifted a nearby pickup off the ground and moved it eight to 12 inches, he said.

The cardboard cylinder holding the flash powder flew apart with such force some of the cardboard punctured the steel wall of the pickup's bed.

The device, made with an estimated five to 10 pounds of flash powder, was much larger than those used in a normal fireworks display, Hall said.

The men violated guild rules by using a firing range when it was closed and assembling a device on site, Hall said.

The incident happened about 3:45 p.m. Friday, when most guild members were attending a banquet, he said.

Prior to the explosion, the guild had not recorded a serious injury at one of its events in 35 years, according to its organizers.

Investigators determined the incident did not involve any criminal intent and the Sheriff's Department was closing its case, Hall said.

The convention concluded Friday evening with a large fireworks display, similar to other shows staged earlier in the week, with nightly activities concluding about 1 a.m.

The Sheriff's Department received two or three noise complaints on mornings following a display, Chief Deputy Jim Thoreson said.

Often, he said, the callers were people who had recently moved to the area and were not familiar with the guild and its periodic visits to the West Fargo area.

The Sheriff's Department could not act on the complaints because Cass County does not have a noise ordinance and state law allows fireworks without a permit at the fairgrounds, Thoreson said.

Although some people complained, the event was very popular with others, as it took an hour and forty minutes for spectators to leave the fairgrounds area after Friday's show, Thoreson said.

West Fargo police also received complaint calls and all were referred to the county, Police Chief Arland Rasmussen said.

Many in West Fargo used the fireworks convention as an opportunity to gather together outdoors to watch a fabulous show from their yard chairs, Rasmussen said.

"The people who like it don't call," he said.

Two calls to guild officials for comment were not returned Monday


These were both from passfire's forum:

I was told by someone who was there, that at least two of the guys are in serious condition and one may not live. They were supposedly mixing 25 lbs. of ''Super Flash'' in a container on site (against PGI rules and regulations) and the resulting blast severed one guy's legs and destroyed two vehicles nearby

It was reportedly not 25 lbs. ATFE and PGI say closer to 8 to 10 lbs. What the heck is ANYONE doing with that much flash???

Edited by Patrick, 17 August 2004 - 07:19 PM.

[The_Djinn]

Definitely brings new meaning to the phrase .."gone in a flash".
Just goes to show how quickly things can go wrong when working with sensitive formulas. These people had probably worked with flash hundreds of time and possibly had become a little complacent with handling it.

[BigG]

Definitely brings new meaning to the phrase .."gone in a flash".
Just goes to show how quickly things can go wrong when working with sensitive formulas. These people had probably worked with flash hundreds of time and possibly had become a little complacent with handling it.

I stand corrected. If this is 8-10 pound ? then huge fits the description more then large. I heard about much smaller quantities.

Anyone making that much flash ? cannot call himself a serious pyrotechnition. It shows amazing stupidity.