wayne

Absolutely, it would be great to be involved.  I'll be in touch once I know more.

Also, just for every bodies reference, I've updated the good practise guidance to include UN MAN2 in explosive certificate applications:

http://www.pyrosocie...ctise-guidance/

Hi Jon,

The law on sugar rockets is no different than any other pyrotechnic device.  See our guidance document for more information on the laws and licences required to manufacture.

http://www.pyrosocie...ctise-guidance/

Cheers,

Wayne.

Hi Danny, will do and many thanks!

Hi All,

With a view to getting things moving for those who are struggling with A&K applications, I thought I would first try and gain an understanding to where the problems lie.  It it just one region or do we have issues in several regions etc.  So with this in mind, I would like to hear from all those still struggling by answering a few simple questions

1. The name of your ELO
2. The region you are applying 
3. Any background information on your application this far (communication with ELO, current status, etc).

Please PM me this information by the end of this week.  Don't post it within this thread.

Once we have a better picture of the problem, we can decide on how to deal with the situation.  I don't want to discuss a particular individual with the ELO (the ELO shouldn't be able to anyway from a data protection point of view), I want to discuss the general issues around the current A&K applications.

At the end of the week, I will consolidate the information and post the results here and discuss our next steps.

Cheers,

Wayne.

Agreed, the tone can be misinterpreted as I wasn't trying to be pedantic, just trying to clarify your question and help!

The process maps attempt to lead you through the relevant questions you need to ask yourself regarding storage when you are manufacturing substances or articles.  In this particular instance (Are any articles listed in Schedule 3 of ER 2014?), its asking if the device you've manufacture for experimental reasons falls into schedule 3.  Its up to you to decide that from the UN numbers listed in the schedule  In most experimental cases is would guess that the answer would be "no" if you examine the UN numbers (Articles, explosive, N.O.S, Bombs, with bursting charge)!  If the answer to this question was "yes", then is suggests that a explosive certificate is required.  In any case, you would probably have a explosive certificate if you are manufacturing BP at some level.

Cheers,

Wayne.

Hi Paul,

Yes, I know its difficult to believe but it is perfectly lawful to build experimental articles.  We've spent nearly 8 years working with the HSE and the Home office to get clarification and exemption.  This isn't without limitation, but its legal as longs as:

• The article is <= 100g NEQ
• The article is made for experimentation of demonstration only - no practical use.
• You are in possession of a A&K or A0 certificate for the above.

For full details see: http://www.pyrosocie...ctise-guidance/

Quite rightly, if you want to build articles outside the restrictions above, you would need a full manufacturing licence.

A fully licensed manufacturing shared facility would be great and an idea that has been investigated many times over the years.  I hope it could be a reality one day.

Cheers,

Wayne.

Make them yourself....simples. I will also be buying a vast quantity very soon and stockpiling as many as you can reasonably need to tide me over until I work out how to get round the changes.

 

I genuinely respect and applaud all the efforts that certain people on here have made to try and protect the hobby and I hope we all can support them to continue. It is hardly the fault of this organisation or any individuals in it who actively trying to make things better but only partially succeed.

Our problem is we are a handful of enthusiasts with limited resources to meet the various requirements put upon us and we have almost no power. No one cares if we lose the right to buy e match or the right to make small quantities of pyrotechnic devices. The systems in place that create these regulations are not geared up to accommodate these unusual exceptions and we get treated like we were the same as a corporation.

There will always be ways around the restrictions and if you have a creative mind there will be a way. We do need to create a cooperative which contains people in the trade but who can help. I see no reason why we can't work together to create a semi-pro group run like a business with numerous part-time employees just like crew for a fireworks company. If re-enactors can do it then surely we can?

What would it take to create a Pyro Society that had a store, that had insurance, that offered training, that had explosives experts and legal experts to assist with the sharing of knowledge. Why can't we have a co-op of suppliers who can use the stores and supply chemicals via regular meets.

If some half wit can buy a container and stick it in a field in Essex and fill it with CAt2/3 fireworks and sell fireworks once a year out the back of a van LEGALLY then why is it we can't get our act together to start a pyro company that offers pyro services on a small scale but which legitimately empowers members (employees) to get training, get rated by the BPA, learn about A&K, by fusing for their part-time trade have the right to buy e match etc etc etc.

Am I just that naive?

We have people here with A&K. licenses to sell all manner of chemicals, explosives experts, legal; experts, people who run pro fireworks companies and we can't get a membership scheme in place to give everyone the chance to access training and get what they need to buy what they need.

 

That is a great idea and one that been around in the UKPS for quite a while.  Unfortunately and as usual, we just don't have the membership to pull it off.  Geographic locations, funding, getting people involved are always the barriers.

It's a pretty poor show if you ask me and that is not a dig at the people who are trying it's a dig at people who just moan.

 

My feelings entirely!  Rather than moaning, do something to help!  Don't just expect the society and its limited volunteer staff to have all the answers!

Just a quick update on this, I've been chatting with the HO about this again.  They are as keen as us to find a working solution to mail order chemical supplies, so we are currently looking into a few proposals.

As soon as there is anything worth announcing, I'll be back...

Many thanks for that Danny.

The bulletin will also be accompanied by a brief society overview document to give the ELO's a little background on who we are and what we're about.  I've attached this below for your reference.

Cheers,

Wayne.

Updated 11/03/15 @ 16:58: Minor changes to the doc...

Good stuff Danny, it all sounds to have gone as I suggested.  Good to hear that the ELO is aware of the guidance and referencing your UKPS membership.  Its goes to show that membership of the UKPS is more than worth the measly £20 per year!

During the process of the ELR and creation of the guidance, I suggested organising "training" of the regulations (explanations of each area in the guidance document).  Naturally, this would cross over into practical aspects of experimentation as well.  As it stands, nothing as yet been planned.  As you can imagine, this in itself it a big piece of work to undertake and must be designed and implemented to ensure 100% legality - we can't make any mistakes when creating training materials.  This is why the guidance document took so long to generate, it has to be watertight from a legal standpoint.

In the short-term, I would suggest that competence is gained by:

• Sharing knowledge through the UKPS and its forums  
• Reading pyro literature 
• Organise meetings with other UKPS members
• Joining the IExpE who already have entry tests

Remember, the UKPS is your society, it doesn't mean that everything has to organised by the committee.  You could start writing your own training material with a view to rolling this out as a training course provided through the society - everyone can play a part!

PS.  I will be updating the guidance document in the next few days following my discussions with a group of prominent ELO's.  They are only minor changes, but the feedback I got regarding the guidance document was fantastic.  They were very complimentary and appreciative of the effort that has gone into the guidance.  This really demonstrates how far we have come and how accepted experimental pyrotechnics has become!

Its an exciting future!

Hi Gareth, just take its a step at a time and things will fall into place.

In regards to process building (and with all the application of the regulations), it just takes a little common sense.  A dedicated building would be ideal, but not an actual necessity - it depends what else you do in there.  For example, it could be a shed that is used just to store your shovel and spade, it would say that would be fine.  If your shed stores a mower, fuel and you also use it as an occasional office, I wouldn't say that was suitable.

Most sheds would be dry and clean if maintained properly, so a shed is perfectly acceptable as long as it has a roof that works!

Storing items away from process building is just common sense, who in there right mind would make an explosive composition in a room where other devices and substances are stored!

Its inevitable that not everyone will have access to the required space, for example, if you live in a 1 bedroom flat without any outside space then its a non starter.  That said, most normal sized gardens would be perfectly adequate.  Again, its all common sense.

Unfortunately, the guidance document cannot be prescriptive and therefore providing a "typical example" wouldn't be possible.  I understand how this could be useful but we have to be careful on stating exactly how things could be done.  We have to leave the responsibility to the individual to use their judgement.  That's not to say though that it could be discussed here! 

Todays the day when ER 2014 finally comes into force!

We've come a long way, so I think its finally time to be proud of your hobby - so get out the bubbly and celebrate! 

Its certainly a moment in history of the UKPS!

Hi All,

I'm pleased to announce the publication of the long awaited guidance for the Manufacture of Experimental Pyrotechnic Compositions and Articles.  This can be downloaded here:

http://www.pyrosocie...ctise-guidance/

The beauty of a guidance document over and ACOP is that it can be revised at any time.  This document will be in constant revision, so please check back regularly to ensure you have the latest copy.

This thread is pinned and closed so please see additional thread for discussion and feedback.

Kind regards,

Wayne.

I think so Wayne...told the missus i needed some certs last night and mentioned the dreaded "Explosives" word (COER 1 )....that was it ...what was once just to her " making a few fireworks" is now " your fireworks ingredients are now regulated and are now classed as explosives !! " .... i feared her more than the authorities  ....  back to long exposure astrophotography ...the worlds most infuriating hobby  ...but special when it goes well !

I understand the situation, I've been there and one of the major reasons I've spent the past 6 years clarifying the regulations.

At least now you can legitimately pursue the hobby, previously it was a very cloudy situation.

Don't give up hope completely, once I publish the guidance maybe you can review it with your wife to help allay her concerns?

Hi All,

Just to let you know, I've now received my precursor licence so the system is up and working. 

I've also been lucky enough to receive the first licence ever issued 

Cheers,

Wayne.