GreenGenie

What is the policy on this with the forum? I replied to a thread asking for information on where to buy Ammonium Perchlorate and I was happy to help. I was grateful to be able to help someone else as it is usually me doing the asking. The information must have incurred the disapproval of the elders of the group as it was quickly removed.

Sourcing the necessary chemicals is one of the larger challenges. Without the availability of the necessary chemicals there is nothing to talk about on this forum. I have been on the receiving end of much kindness and assistance from members of this group who have been very welcoming and forth coming in this regard as well as on matters of technical advice. A forum like this provides the opportunity to share this priceless information around the group. So what are the rules on this and the reasoning behind the rules?

I have most of the major chemicals needed but there are a surprising number of lesser chemicals used less frequently in compositions (Chemicals like copper benzoate and hexachlorobenzene.). Without these your opportunities are restricted. I would hope that the community might help me tracing some of these.

1***) I have been planning on trying out the Robert Veline colour compositions. Ive been looking forward to it. I have been reading the MSDS sheets on both Potassium Perchlorate and Ammonium Perchlorate in preparation for this and I was struck that both of these chemicals have incompatibilities with metals generally. Potassium Perchlorate has incompatibilities with Aluminium and Magnesium specifically highlighted. Velines compositions contain both Potassium Perchlorate and a quantity of Magnalium.

Now I understand that Robert Velines Compositions are well established standards but given Perchlorates incompatibility with metals and Magnesium and Aluminium in particular how is it that the addition of Magnalium doesn't lead to a dangerous instability when combined with the Potassium Perchlorate? I have noticed this practice is not solely confined to the Veline compositions.

2***) Can Ammonium Perchlorate be substituted for Potassium Perchlorate in Velines compostions and for that matter all compositions?

3***) I notice that BP primes are used with compositions containing Perchlorates. Both Sulphur and Charcoal are listed as incompatible with Potassium Perchlorate. Again using a BP prime with a Perchlorate is bringing incompatible chemicals in contact with each other. Does this not lead to a dangerous instability?

Sulphur and Charcoal (Or Aluminium and Magnesium come to that) are not listed as incompatible with Ammonium Perchlorate on the MSDS sheet that I read; but I suspect that if it is incompatible with Potassium Perchlorate it is probably incompatible with Ammonium Perchlorate too. Is my assumption correct?

4***) I have recently been using aluminium coke cans to weigh out compositions. They combine a large capacity with a small base and they sit neatly on my small scales. I thought they would be suitable to use for compositions as they are non ferrous. Is it dangerous to use an Aluminium container to weigh out perchlorate? I weigh each of the chemicals into the same can (unmixed) prior to tipping it out on a sheet of paper and then mixing by the diapering method.

5***) I have read that metal oxides are incompatible with Chlorate is that also true with Perchlorates? I have made a Shimizu Blue with Potassium Perchlorate and Copper Oxide and Conklin has one too.

I bought some charcoal powder a few months ago from http://www.charcoaldust.co.uk/. Some airfloat, some willow and some lumpwood. The airfloat and the willow seemed ok. The lumpwood contained a lot of very coarse material and was slightly damp. The dampness was not apparent to the eye or by touch; but when I put the charcoal in a tupperware box droplets of moisture would form on the underside of the lid overnight.

Having recently bought a ball mill I thought - no problem, the ball mill will turn that to a fine powder. I put the charcoal in and left it turning overnight. When I opened the drum the mill had produced some standing liquid and the charcoal had turned into a stiff cake like consistency. This came as quite a surprise. I had to use a knife to scrape the drum clean.

Water is clearly the problem I thought. Ok no problem. Its a very hot day. So I left the charcoal and the drums exposed to the full glare of a hot sunny day for 6 hours and the material seemed to dry out well. I milled it again. Again overnight. I opened the drum the next day and whilst there was an improvement (No dampness seemed to be present) still the charcoal was very lumpy. The charcoal had clumped together and formed particles varying in size from fine powder up to a large lump about an inch and a half across. Less than 50% of this material could be said to be a powder. The material is in a far worse condition that it was in when I first bought it.

Clearly there is more to milling charcoal than simply putting it in a ball mill and letting nature take its course. What have I done wrong? What is the correct method for doing this?

As I have had unexpected results milling both nitrate and charcoal I am also asking for advice on milling BP as this is what I plan to do next.

Once again I ask for the wise heads in the group to help a green horn newcomer.

1) ***I have bowed to the inevitable and bought a ball mill. A CR2 from Manchester Minerals (recommended to me by one of the societies sages Arthur Brown) with large rubber barrels. I wanted to start off with something simple and safe, so I put some KNO3 in and milled that overnight. The KNO3 is granular I wanted to turn it into a powder. The ball mill has done this; but the KNO3 is now a pale grey.

Does this matter? I hear a lot of talk about the importance of purity. This stuff is now clearly impure. Presumably material either from the lead balls or from the rubber drum has been transferred to the KNO3.

I bought the lead balls from cooperman; so they should be fine. I was surprised that the lead balls were shiny when they arrived. Now they has been used they are no longer shiny. Presumably they were coated with something which is now in the KNO3.

2)*** I bought the ball mill principally for making BP and turning lumpwood charcoal into powder. However, I would like to make some simple candy propellant and I dont fancy cooking it (sounds a little risky). I have previously made it by diapering KNO3 & icing sugar. Is it safe to ball mill the KNO3 & sugar?

Is there any reason that I shouldn't grind Potassium Nitrate & Sulphur in a pestle & mortar?

The BP I am making is working fine for what I am doing. I keep ready weighed charcoal, sulphur and nitrate in bags which I then mix together when needed.

However, the sulphur despite my best efforts to keep the air out of the bags tends to be a little gritty. I would like to grind it in a pestle and mortar to smooth it out and at the same time I might as well add the nitrate to help combine them and make a better mix. I suppose it would be dangerous to add the charcoal to the pestle and mortar as well. I dont have a ball mill and anyway I feel a little nervous of ball milling gunpowder.