Sparky

What is needed for a venue in so far as space and facilities?

I have a friend who owns land and is very much a supporter of my hobby. The land is primarily woodland but borders fields and has a dirt track road as access etc.

If it is just private land and a sympathetic land owner required it might be a possible site but PM if you think it's worth further investigation.

Sparky, The UKPS does offer training and does offer meetups where pyro is possible and practical and legal advice is available and F2F sales can be arranged, but you don't come. 

 

What the UKPS needs is forum members and society members to actually turn up at meetings when they happen. It's personally waring to propose an event when people don't show up.

Hi Arthur

You make a fair point and to be honest it is only since coming back into the hobby after a gap of about a year that I have realised that so much is changing. I was aware of the precursors consultation and took part in that and like everyone else was optimistic we'd finally have our hobby recognised and accommodated only to realise that the licensing restrictions were such that delivery was impractical. Not only that but in reality that 100g rule and legalities about the manufacturing of a device really have never changed much.

Past meetings have been an extremely long way from me and to be frank I am not sure what actual benefit they were. I apologise if I am out of touch with what the events were designed to achieve (aside from fun and getting to know people of course!) but in the context of BPA firer certification, liability insurance and assistance with A&K applications (e.g. gaining experience with a holder) plus the idea of manufacturing I didn't see much there to help me.

I've therefore been focused on getting to work with pyro companies, applying for BPA courses, doing experience days and finding someone who has an A&K for re-enactment...cannons...muskets etc.  

I am down to come to the meet and will do my best but it is a long way, I have a lot of personal commitments and I would like to know as much about what I will learn there.

A manufacturing licence for a site to permit experimentation beyond the ER2014 Reg6(2) exemption should be as achievable for the non-work applicant as it would be for a commercial applicant.

Cost is a big thing  - £635 for the licence plus around £150/hour for the HSE Inspectors visits. The plus side is that a licence is not time limited you only need to renew your certificate every 5 years.

Lots of work to do to get a compliant laboratory but as I said its still achievable. Happy to consult in the future!!!! Its what we do @Skewenergetics    

Exat (sorry I don't know what else you go by as you don't use a sig)

It seems to me that if we (hobbyists) are really to do anything within the law that we know we all do then we would need this type of set up. All these posts seem to be pussy footing around the real problem and trying to find loopholes in the law to allow us to do the experimentation we want to.

It is all very well us getting EPP and even A&K but realistically for us to make anything worth our while we need a manufacturing license for a site to perform experimentation. We would need premises, a lab and a lot of red tape, rubber stamping from HSE but given the will and the financial backing there is no reason why someone could not set up a lab, manufacturing for experimentation premises?

The legal hoop jumping seems similar in some ways to the obstacles you would have to overcome to set up your own firework display company with a store, insurance, separation distances, BPA training etc etc. Although I imagine there would be a few more hoops to jump through.

Surely there are businesses still making pyrotechnics in the UK but possibly in more specialist areas and not in Fireworks?

I am one for fantasising but you don't know until you ask right...and there is no such thing as a stupid question.

If availability of money, people's time, suitable premises and enthusiasm were all there is it even feasible to imagine a body (business) that existed only to experiment with pyrotechnics and that the people running that business would be part-time and the purpose would be to sell on potential discoveries to other pyro businesses.

There must be many small businesses out there that start up this way and who provide special effects etc. They need labs and the ability to test and experiment. Are there regulations that would make it impossible for amateurs?

Apologies for the rambling line of questioning!

Arthur Brown (Prefer leics)

Fruitfulsteve (Prefer leics)

Vic (Prefer leics)

BlackCat (Prefer leics)

Hi Wayne

Just out of interest are you all well up to speed on this particular legislation for P2 articles, I presume you are of course ? Sorry of this is all old news and if what I have been reading is out of date.

After my rant I spent half the night (I'm a night owl) reviewing its beginnings in the EU standardisation working groups for explosives regs. There was a particular WG5 that lumped a variety of devices into the P2 category and then that was submitted as the EU directive. Most of what I've found it dated back in 2010 when a BIS response to consultation was published. We are listed on that as having been consulted.

I have to confess it wasn't until a Firework supplier mentioned the changes to me that I was even aware of igniters being made P2 and that they could only be supplied to someone who could demonstrate they were a person with specialist knowledge. At first this didn't look to onerous as I would have imagined this could be quite straightforward but when I read the BIS response I was horrified. They clearly have no grasp of what the risks posed by these are and even though the consultation had numerous responses stating the P2 category was a mess, the BIS even agreed but the requirements would be across the board and would require training but worse of all public liability insurance.

Now I'm no expert on this but I do not know of any insurance policy that exists for the hobbyist to be covered for the use of e-matches lol. What has happened here is that they have lumped them in under a group that assumes the only people who could possibly use QM, fuse and e-match safely are CAT4 trained firers but then also must have liability insurance for them to use them so basically only display companies. EVen training is not enough.

This is absolutely insane, it makes it more dangerous for people who fire small displays of what was CAT2/3 as we now have to do so by hand and at close quarters.

This was the BIS response "Our conclusion - what the regulations provide 5.5 Regulation 42 now covers all three categories of specialist knowledge. The provisions in each case have been made fully consistent with each other and in each case the person who wishes to be supplied with a pyrotechnic article must demonstrate to the proposed supplier that he has undertaken the relevant training, has used the relevant category of article and has valid liability insurance for that category of article. We believe these requirements will provide sufficient security to the public without being over burdensome to users or suppliers of pyrotechnic articles."

Is there any value in people contacting the dept. BIS? It seems the consultation was concluded and they didn't listen anyway.

Also the dates for implementation of this directive appears to be now so I'm a bit confused by e match is still available.