trekkie

I take what you say onboard, i really do. Thanks for the advice as i shall be following it up.

Still on the subject though, i can see why people jump in at the deep end with this. The reason is that 'flash' is so damn simple to make that doesn't require any apparatus, with the exception of a pair of scales.
Being only a begineer, i know i shouldn't be saying this but in this hobby, you have to start somewhere

Hi Andrew, thanks for posting your article

I was raided by an explosives search team from another division. They confiscated my chemicals and they told me that they would be sending them down to Kent for analysis. They even asked me to sign a disclaimer which i felt i had to sign.

The only stuff i bought from thechemicalshop was the dextrin binder which in itself is a harmless looking chemical, used as a food additive i believe.
To think they raided me for that is absurd and way over the top because how would i know they would be handing my details over to the police. That would be entrapment surely.

As for hobbychem, i thought they were a reputable supplier. I also emailed them regarding the matter and they have denied passing any details of mine to the police. On the other hand, they do send their parcels out by Royal Mail like you suggested, so it looks like they were after all responsible.

I was going to say something about the CAPS, but after reading a few lines I can see why you'd want to shout about this.

I don't know the specifics but I can say that the police have guidelines that they are supposed to consult upon making a "Find". These guidelines give detailed instructions on what is and isn't suspicious, and what to do with just about any combination/size "Find". I can safely say that the police "Should" have in this case, treated the find as not suspicious on grounds of the very limited quantities involved. In practice however, as this case proves, very few front line officers even get to see these guidelines and ignorantly treat everyone as a terrorist.

On the 'new to' these chemicals are a bit extreme for the budding amateur.
The quantities/combination is not sufficient to class this find as suspicious; under official and ratified HO guidelines.
Not as big an "IF" as one might think. you have to remember that Hobbychem is very new.

THIS IS JUST SPECULATION: But a new chemical supplier like Hobbychem probably does not adhere to the relevant legislation, whether that be HSE legislation or other things like the 'Data Protection Act'. The latter is of concern here. AGAIN THIS IS A REMINDER TO EVERYONE THAT THIS IS JUST SPECULATION: Should a new chemicals supplier like Hobbychem get 'raided' by say antiterrorism police, they might not know that they are breaking the law by just handing over their customer records; even in the presence of a warrant, the absolute releasing of complete customer records breaches the DPA and the ECHR.

Warrants must be specific. If the Police say, seize a computer and find other evidence that leads to the arrest and prosecution of a person and crime that were not the intended purpose of the initial warrant, this is what is called 'Collateral Intrusion' (if your proved innocent, but it's complicated). It can lead to quite severe cases being dropped on technicalities as to how the evidence was obtained (rendering that evidence insubmittable); there is plenty of case law to back this. If it turns out that the intrusion was against an innocent person, as in this case. Compensation is on the cards, and certainly the replacement of the door.

Also to bear in mind, you said that the chemicals were confiscated. Did the police remove the chemicals themselves? If so they were breaking the law and breaching official HO guidelines. They should have called in 'Scientific Services' to deal with the find. If they did call in 'Scientific Services', then they should also know about the HO guidelines on find quantities, and it would not be too presumptuous to assume that the guidelines were just ignored. Its important to state, that it is very difficult for the police, because mistakes can be made, because its impossible to educate all officers about all laws and guidelines.

With the door, even though there was a warrant (if not the police really screwed up), the destruction of the door was not necessary given the evidence to hand, the quantities only really warranted a knock at the door to gain entry, not smashing it in. I got a knock at the door for having several hundred kilos of chemicals (with a few mitigating circumstances though). You should also be looking to get your chemicals back as well as getting a new door, pointing out specifically that you intend to operate well within the confines of current legislation regarding the manufacture of explosives and that at the end of the day you are innocent.

Basically the way it works is a member of the public sees a supplier, and like a right Norman they call the police. The police do not actively seek out suppliers; too much time is involved. The police pay a visit and sometimes they get lucky; their presence alone intimidates the person into handing over the customer details without them even having to ask directly. This is intelligence gained legally.

One other thing sprung to mind. Did you say that you purchased something from "www.thechemicalshop.co.uk"? because this is probably the leak of your details if you did.
Yes they are!

It's important to only buy from companies you trust. If your paranoid about your details and getting ripped off, make sure they are DPA registered and will protect your privacy accordingly, also make sure they adhere to all other necessary legislation and don't use Royal Mail for example to send hazardous chemicals.

The Brian Howes saga should have taught people a lesson. This is the guy alone with his partner, who ran KNO3.com and thechemicalshop.co.uk, and several others. Ludicrous prices and all customers got rewarded with a visit from the police!

I was going to say something about the CAPS, but after reading a few lines I can see why you'd want to shout about this.

I don't know the specifics but I can say that the police have guidelines that they are supposed to consult upon making a "Find". These guidelines give detailed instructions on what is and isn't suspicious, and what to do with just about any combination/size "Find". I can safely say that the police "Should" have in this case, treated the find as not suspicious on grounds of the very limited quantities involved. In practice however, as this case proves, very few front line officers even get to see these guidelines and ignorantly treat everyone as a terrorist.

On the 'new to' these chemicals are a bit extreme for the budding amateur.
The quantities/combination is not sufficient to class this find as suspicious; under official and ratified HO guidelines.
Not as big an "IF" as one might think. you have to remember that Hobbychem is very new.

THIS IS JUST SPECULATION: But a new chemical supplier like Hobbychem probably does not adhere to the relevant legislation, whether that be HSE legislation or other things like the 'Data Protection Act'. The latter is of concern here. AGAIN THIS IS A REMINDER TO EVERYONE THAT THIS IS JUST SPECULATION: Should a new chemicals supplier like Hobbychem get 'raided' by say antiterrorism police, they might not know that they are breaking the law by just handing over their customer records; even in the presence of a warrant, the absolute releasing of complete customer records breaches the DPA and the ECHR.

Warrants must be specific. If the Police say, seize a computer and find other evidence that leads to the arrest and prosecution of a person and crime that were not the intended purpose of the initial warrant, this is what is called 'Collateral Intrusion' (if your proved innocent, but it's complicated). It can lead to quite severe cases being dropped on technicalities as to how the evidence was obtained (rendering that evidence insubmittable); there is plenty of case law to back this. If it turns out that the intrusion was against an innocent person, as in this case. Compensation is on the cards, and certainly the replacement of the door.

Also to bear in mind, you said that the chemicals were confiscated. Did the police remove the chemicals themselves? If so they were breaking the law and breaching official HO guidelines. They should have called in 'Scientific Services' to deal with the find. If they did call in 'Scientific Services', then they should also know about the HO guidelines on find quantities, and it would not be too presumptuous to assume that the guidelines were just ignored. Its important to state, that it is very difficult for the police, because mistakes can be made, because its impossible to educate all officers about all laws and guidelines.

With the door, even though there was a warrant (if not the police really screwed up), the destruction of the door was not necessary given the evidence to hand, the quantities only really warranted a knock at the door to gain entry, not smashing it in. I got a knock at the door for having several hundred kilos of chemicals (with a few mitigating circumstances though). You should also be looking to get your chemicals back as well as getting a new door, pointing out specifically that you intend to operate well within the confines of current legislation regarding the manufacture of explosives and that at the end of the day you are innocent.

Basically the way it works is a member of the public sees a supplier, and like a right Norman they call the police. The police do not actively seek out suppliers; too much time is involved. The police pay a visit and sometimes they get lucky; their presence alone intimidates the person into handing over the customer details without them even having to ask directly. This is intelligence gained legally.

One other thing sprung to mind. Did you say that you purchased something from "www.thechemicalshop.co.uk"? because this is probably the leak of your details if you did.
Yes they are!

It's important to only buy from companies you trust. If your paranoid about your details and getting ripped off, make sure they are DPA registered and will protect your privacy accordingly, also make sure they adhere to all other necessary legislation and don't use Royal Mail for example to send hazardous chemicals.

The Brian Howes saga should have taught people a lesson. This is the guy alone with his partner, who ran KNO3.com and thechemicalshop.co.uk, and several others. Ludicrous prices and all customers got rewarded with a visit from the police!

i DON'T KNOW ABOUT PURCHASING AMMONIUM NITRATE FOR MAKING H.E BUT DO ANY OF YOU LOT KNOW WHAT THE MAXIMUM ORDER QUANTITY IS FOR BUYING CHEMICALS AT HOBBYCHEM. YOU SEE, THE THING IS, SOME MONTHS BACK i BOUGHT 300G OF GERMAN DARK, 250G OF SULPHUR, 100G OF MAGNALIUM AND 200G OF POTASSIUM PERCHLORATE, THE RESULT WAS THAT i GOT MY DOOR BASHED IN BY THE POLICE. i ALSO BOUGHT SOME DEXTRIN BINDER FROM THE THE CHEMICAL SHOP. ANYWAY, I WAS ARRESTED AND MY COMPUTER SEIZED ALONG WITH THE CHEMICALS AND HELD FOR 10 HOURS IN THE CLINK AND THEN RELEASED ON BAIL. I FELT I NEEDED AN EXPLANATION FROM HOBBYCHEM BECAUSE I BELIEVED THAT THEY HAD DUPED ME AND ALERTED THE POLICE ABOUT MY PURCHASE. I WAS ALSO TOLD BY MY SOLICITOR THAT THAT WAS PROBABLY THE LIKIEST EXPLANATION FOR MY ARREST. TWO MONTHS LATER HOWEVER, I WAS TOLD THAT I WOULD NOT BE FACING ANY CHARGES. IN THE MEANTIME, I HAVE GOT TO FIND £500 TO HAVE A NEW DOOR FITTED FOR WHICH THE POLICE ARE RELUCTANT TO PAY FOR. THE THING THAT REALLY FRUSTRATES ME IS I'VE ONLY BEEN IN THIS HOBBY FOUR MONTHS AND I'VE ALREADY BEEN ARRESTED, NOT TO MENTION FEELING DRAINED WITH FRUSTRATION AT WHETHER I SHOULD QUIT OR NOT, NOW I KNOW WHY SOME OF YOU DIEHARDS PREFER FERTILIZERS AND MILLING TO BUYING THE BLOODY STUFF.